How Much Force Can He Use?

[hawk1]

PM sent Dan

[Pvt. Cowboy]

...he started yelling into the apartment send the B**ch out or I’m coming in to get her...

Now the Question

How much Force Can he use to protect him self and his Family if the guy makes it over the wall and into his apartment?

California: He enters the dwelling seeking to do harm, deadly force may be used.

Most other Western US states: DRT --- Dead right there out on the back patio.

[HCz]

Remember though that the assailant needs to actually enter the house and no further retreat is possible and can only shoot to stop the threat. Being that your brother is handicapped, he is already limited in retreat options.

I agree with hawk1, a handgun seems a better solution due to maneuverability.

Perhaps a .38 snubbie (big fan of revolvers due to simplicity), a copy of How to own a gun and stay out of jail to better outline the rules of engagement and a restraining order?

+1. Not knowing what the handicap is it's hard to say, but see if there are better choices for him. Also a good training should be in order.

[nick]

i'd have him buy the .357 revolver and practice with .38's. save the .357 ammo for self defense.

might as well have the benefit of two calibers.

movie zombie

I wouldn't use a .357 for self-defense due to overpenetration. .38 Special is just fine with good bullets, like the ones Federam makes.

[DRM6000]

Thanks Guys,

My Brother came by this morning and I let him try holding one of my shotguns and you were right its just to much for him I think the 4” 38 is right on the money for what he needs.
The guy doesn’t live in the apartments he was just visiting someone who does so on Monday my Sister-in-law is going to file a restraining order on him. I am taking my brother and sister-in-law to the range in the morning with one of my 357’s and put 38’s in it and let them practice with it and on Monday we will take a trip to Bright Spot and get them one of their own.

Thanks again

bring up the matter with the manager. the tenant that he was visiting can be evicted. i don't know about the level of the charges, but if it's a felony, then that's more leverage to have the tenant thrown out.

if i encountered such an event, as a prop. manager, i would contact my director and our attorney to move to have a tenant evicted.

oh, and as for the level of force, you brother can be better armed since there is a disparity of force due to his disability.

[The SoCal Gunner]

From what the gf said (her bf was going to kill her) and because of her condition and the situation (bleeding eye and bottle through the window as well as the bf trying to climb in), I would have to say that a reasonable person would have believed that the girl's life, or their own life, was at stake which should have justified the use of lethal force.

[saki302]

If he gets his HSC card, you can let him legally borrow a ,38 until his 10 day wait is up
I agree- a 4" .38 revolver is just about perfect if he's handicapped. Light recoil, gets the job done with the right load, and compact (enough).

-Dave

[midvalleyshooter]

Loan your brother the 38 and have him purchase one. 10 days is a long time with that bastard on the loose.

Use a 38 defense load such as the "FBI load" shown here on the right:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38%20Snub%20Ammo%20Test.htm

Keith

PS I can't stand a man that would strike a woman.

[PzKfW]

The buffalo bore 1000fps 158gr LHPSWC .38spec +p would be the one I would use, and is what is in my nightstand gun.

880 fps is not that speedy. It will probably get the job done, but just for comparison, a .45acp standard pressure 230gr loading is what, about 850 fps? And that is a bullet with 50% more mass and frontal area.

Cheers

[HowardW56]

He is best off not using any force, if that is unavoidable, he needs to use enough force to end the threat, period...

as far as a handgun, a S&W 4" model 10, simple and effective. Since he is in an apartment, a shotgun is effective, but in my opinion should be loaded with #8... Nobody is going to come back for a second dose of shot and the #8 are less likely to wipe out a neighbor sitting on the can...

[PzKfW]

If the sight of a gun pointed at the perp doesn't stop him, then he is determined to hurt you or others. At which point, your reaction becomes very time sensitive.

At that point, you need something that will stop him quickly, before he can cause any harm. IE something that will bleed him out quickly or knock out his CNS. Achieving either of those objectives are also fatal to him. So, in other words, if you have to shoot, it only makes sense to shoot with the deadliest possible intent and weapon.

Birdshot will not necessarily incapacitate any perp who wishes you harm with a weapon unless you hit him in the eyes or neck (loss of vision / great vessels close to surface in neck) - either way, I'd rather have buckshot. Or a solid slug from a handgun. 12" of penetration will not end up coming out the back of him with enough force to hurt anyone. If he misses, that is a different story, but that is the way it is, if you want a round effective enough to stop the bad guy (12" penetration minimum).

Agree on the M10, load it with the FBI or Buffalo Bore loads. Get him to the range a couple of times, at least.

[bigthaiboy]

He is best off not using any force, if that is unavoidable, he needs to use enough force to end the threat, period...

as far as a handgun, a S&W 4" model 10, simple and effective. Since he is in an apartment, a shotgun is effective, but in my opinion should be loaded with #8... Nobody is going to come back for a second dose of shot and the #8 are less likely to wipe out a neighbor sitting on the can...

Keep the birdshot for the birdies and the skeets. #8 will make a nasty flesh wound, but will not necessarily stop a determined attacker. It certainly won't stop him from shooting back. Why would you ever leave a life and death situation to chance? If you wound an attacker, what's to stop him from sueing you for $millions afterwards?

As the OP said, his brother has a disability, and if it is a spinal problem, I would steer clear of a shotgun. The recoil on buckshot and slugs could prove more than he can handle.

I agree with several posters here, a .38Spl revolver with 4" barrel, loaded with +P rated hollow points should be more than adequate. The recoil is light and managable for most people.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that you can use whatever force you feel is needed to stop somebody that a reasonable person would believe is an imminent threat to the life or wellbeing of yourself or others. In which case, drunken retard who has just beaten up his girlfriend, broken your back door and is trying to come over you back gate is clearly a threat. Empty the gun into his center of mass and be done with it. Period. If I lived in an apartment complex again, I would do the same thing I did in college when I lived in one. A handgun that I am familiar with, loaded with glasers or magsafes, or a shotgun loaded with turky loads. Neither of which is likely to kill your neighbors if it goes through a sheet or two of drywall. JHPs, buckshot and shotgun slugs all can. I have no problem with shooting a dirtbag intent on doing me harm. But I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I accidently blew the head off of the 3 year old next door. Think before you recommend something that can kill people other than your intended target. And for the record, I would also say get a .38 revolver with a 4" barrel. And practice, practice, practice. Even get a couple extra packages of glasers/whatever to run through your gun once you are familiar with it. They are too expensive to practice with regularly, but you DO want to know if they shoot POA. I know that my 9mm ones did, but my 7.62x25 ones didn't.

-Mb

[SJgunguy24]

I remember a case a few months back somewhere in So. Cal. A woman had retreated to her back yard to escape an intruder, when he came after her she was forced to kill him. The D.A. didn't seek charges do the fear she had or her life.

In any case,it comes down to the D.A. The disability will play a role in any use of force situation. How the D.A. chooses to view the shoot is where any problems may arise. Don't forget, every round you fire has a 50,000$ check attched to it.

B.T.W. for me I use a G17 standard mag speer old dot 124gr +p and G26 same load. 17 for me i'm going to investigate any "noises" and the kids go the the bedroom with mama,she has the 26.

[PzKfW]

Glasers and Magsafes are non-effective. Use a proven round. In .38special, that would be the FBI load or the ramped up version of it, the Buffalo Bore load I mentioned. Avoid magsafes and glasers, they will not give you the penetration you need.