Constructive Criticism Welcomed

[mikeyr]

lesson for me out of all this was "phone"
When I get home, most of the time I leave my phone in the car, hardly ever bring it into the house and I have no land line. I don't get a lot of calls anyway and that is what voice mail is for, my friends know if I don't answer the phone I am probably home.
But I think I will be bringing the phone into the house from now on. I always planned on barricading myself with guns pointed at the bedroom door, but oops never thought about how I would call 911 with my phone in the car.

So I think you did fine since you didn't pull the trigger, next time think about staying inside but thanks for posting and making me think about that stupid phone that I should have with me.

[EVGRambis]

Glad everything worked out for you braddah. If I may share a somewhat similar occurrence:

My mom lives in a corner house. My uncle (her brother) and his small family lives with her too. Around 2AM my mom wakes up because she feels the house 'shudder/shake'. Asking her if she heard anything at that time she said she didn't hear anything, only remembers the shake waking her. My uncle is soon knocking on her door asking her is she 'heard that' but she is still in the middle of figuring out if she is still asleep or awake and grabs her robe to go out and investigate (with uncle).

Turns out some kid running from the cops runs into the neighborhood, gets away but crashes through my moms exterior concrete wall, takes down a couple of small trees and finally runs into a bigger tree. This tree prevents the car from crashing into the house. Uncle calls 911 and cops arrive within a few minutes. Cops tell them to stay inside as the driver is missing and they are outside searching for the driver.

A few minutes later my mom hears the cops yelling "drop the @#$! gun" and "put the #@?!$ gun down"... etc. etc. She finds out later that this happened at her neighbors house that is located 2 houses down. The neighbor didn't hear the crash but somebody was desperately trying to open the front door (shaking the door knob very hard) and then doing the same with the front windows. He grabs his gun, turns on the outside lights, peeks outside and then goes outside to investigate and runs into some officers searching for the driver.

He later says that when he opened the door and steps outside immediately he couldn't see anything because all these lights shined in his face with all these voices issuing commands. He recognized the authoritative commands (as cops) and slowly dropped his handgun. He mentioned he was lucky he used his weak hand to shield his eyes when the lights were on him and kept his strong/armed hand down by his thigh. Any movements from his strong hand might have provoked the officers into shooting him.

Everything turned out alright in the end (driver did get caught) and nobody got shot and/or killed.

Sorry to hijack the thread braddah! Just wanted to relate a similar story that could've have turned ugly. And no my moms neighbor isn't some gun(g) ho pro 2A mall ninja type. He was genuinely in that 'somebody just tried to forcibly enter my house let me see wtf is going on out there' state of mind.

[drifts1]

You did just fine as far as im concerned. My views and beliefs are based on my own moral code, common sense, and basic right/wrong reasoning. I believe when it comes to a man's home & family, that man is the authority. In my view you were well within your right to go outside or stay in. Wether it turned out good or bad I would not judge you negatively.

[calibased]

You should have stayed INSIDE your house.

You aren't the police and it's not your job to apprehend people who pose no immediate threat to you. This could have ended VERY badly for you.

If he wasn't trying to get in your house you should have simply called 911 and reported what you saw and which way he went.

OP i respect what you did but i think when it all boils down to it.. Steve speaks the truth.


I would have done what you did minus gone outside. Too dangerous and you are exposed (if you want to think about it from a tactical POV).

What if by the time you made it back to the door the Perp already made it to cover? what if he spotted you first when you came backoutside and was armed? you are exposed standing in the open you know?

Heres a big one: What if a police officer was running up on the seen? do you think he would know you are a friendly? What if the bad guy took that moment as an advantage and started opening fire?

Personally i take the safety of my self, my loved ones and my property very seriously. (as im sure you all do). I use my home as a fort and focus all my defenses around being able to "stay inside and defend my self from whats outside"

[BigPimping]

Stay inside, get your weapon in case of an attempt to enter your domain by the perp, call police and tell them everything. Do not put yourself in harm's way.

[cannon]

Very wise of you not to shoot.

[golfish]

Having owned golden retrievers for the last 30 years I would be very disappointed in my dogs letting somebody in the backyard. If my dogs where in the house when I first heard the ruckus I would have let Him\Her\them out.

[RR.44]

I agree barricade yourself inside, if the perp breaks in that's another story

[The Gleam]

So my goal of this post is to get your opinion on how I did overall to this situation that came up last week. Maybe by sharing this we can all learn something that may help ourselves and or our loved ones in the future.

Lay of the land - I live in a single family home alone with my 2 dogs - Labs
12,000 sq/ft lot most of which is backyard 8,000 sq/ft of so - neighbors on 2 sides - tree farm on the long back wall and a power line field on the short back wall - housing track on the short side wall with a 70 yard field separating the 2 housing tracks. House is small, but has a nice 300 sq/ft screened in room that i have a poker table and a couple tv's for sports and a fridge well stocked. This is were i spend most of my time in the evenings having a cold one and watching sports, working on the laptop for work, etc.,,,,anyways

Thursday night around 9 pm in the housing track that commons the 70 yard field I hear a car chase, tires screeching,, the real deal,,,then i see police lights and hear a BIG car crash. I'm like holy F - I have my EDC on my hip, but no light/laser ( my backyard is very dark ) so i run inside and grab my nightstand weapon ( light and laser ) and run back outside. As I come out of the door from the screen room to the backyard I turn and see a man running my way from the back of my yard. I light him up with the light and laser and YELL for him to stop ( at the same time in my head I take a mental snapshot of this guy, especially his hands - they are both empty - NO weapon )

He tries to stop in his tracks, but as he is running full speed it takes him a good 20/30 feet to stop as I'm tracking him with the light/laser. He complies with ALL my orders - first one was slowly lift your shirt up high and slowly turn around - HE complies - No visible weapons - NOW get the F on the ground, hands palms up and cross your legs,,,HE complies with NO aggression towards me,,

I'm yelling warnings and asking for help ( call 911 ) to my neighbor but he's snoozing through this whole ordeal - i really don't know how, but he did sleep through it. The PD has there hands full with the guy that was driving so NO pursuit of the guy in my yard - or the other guy that ran in a different direction as well. The area of my yard that i had him on the ground is about 12 feet wide and 30 feet deep with a gate to the front of the house and my neighbors fence ( the one i was yelling too ). After what seemed like 5 minutes the guy catches his breath and stands up NOT obeying my orders to stay down. I tell him if he comes towards me,,,its over for him,,,,so he jumps the fence into my neighbors yard,,,,F - and runs around the backyard and out the front gate,,,poof he's gone. I retreated to my phone and called 911 - gave all the details and secured myself in my home until PD arrived.

I never once felt that my life was threatened - hence no discharge of weapon and dead, from what i found out from PD, shoplifter kid. Albeit the kid was 6' 220+

The mistakes I know I made - NO cell phone in my pocket while caring in the first place - regardless if it was at home. Never thought to get his wallet as I didn't want him reaching in any pocket to begin with and i wasn't about to take it from him and get into fist to cuffs and have my weapon taken from me. I did my best under the circumstances and just wish PD was on his tail as this story would have turned out different with the kid in cuffs.

FYI I spoke with PD this evening, I've been out of town since Friday am, and the kid did get away to date along with the other runner. There is obviously an ongoing investigation.

Once again, I just hope we can all learn something from my experience.

Be safe,,and I welcome your thoughts

Before I can give you my opinion and thoughts.... were you naked?

I mean, I see you were wearing your EDC on your hip, and you mention no cell phone in your pocket - which implies clothing... but I'm picturing you naked as I read your story. And re-read your story. You. Naked.

I need pictures.

[Squidward]

Before I can give you my opinion and thoughts.... were you naked?

I mean, I see you were wearing your EDC on your hip, and you mention no cell phone in your pocket - which implies clothing... but I'm picturing you naked as I read your story. And re-read your story. You. Naked.

I need pictures.

I was going to post something profound and insightful..

But now I can't stop laughing.

[Cheeseball]

Before I can give you my opinion and thoughts.... were you naked?

I mean, I see you were wearing your EDC on your hip, and you mention no cell phone in your pocket - which implies clothing... but I'm picturing you naked as I read your story. And re-read your story. You. Naked.

I need pictures.

sorry to disappoint you,,I believe - But i was in fact clothed - shorts, tee shirt and shoes/socks. I was actually on the laptop sitting in the screened room reading stuff as the football game was a blow out,,,,cell phone was sitting next to the laptop,,,,not in the pocket.

Thanks again for the laugh!!

[ale014]

This is probably the most important aspect of any confrontation and you handled it well. Remember, if you're not in immediate danger you are not justified in using deadly force.



Not having a phone was the only mistake *after* you made decision to step outside the house.

Whether you should have gone outside or not is open to interpretation. Generally it's much better to stay inside since you are better protected and chances are the kid running away is not going to try to break in. However, confronting him early *before* he decides whether it's a good idea to try to hide inside your house might not have been completely bad decision either. Hard to tell, especially when looking at it in retrospect.

I'd say you did really well overall. The initial mistakes didn't affect the rest of your judgment, so once you were out without the phone and the kid decided to run, you did exactly the right thing.

I agree +1

[Cheeseball]

[The Last American Hero]

Maybe wear a bright orange traffic/hunting vest so the cops will see you are saying "I'm civilian" or something.


I think it is perfectly OK for semi-trained responsible gun owners to "come out of the woodwork" and brandish arms in public if there is a suspect on the loose. While the "kid" was only a shoplifter the fact he was running and crashing, and running..... means he was dangerous. One look at the well armed "locals" and any suspect will be running to the police themselves.

[Cheeseball]

"I take a mental snapshot of this guy, especially his hands - they are both empty - NO weapon and I never once felt that my life was threatened "

So there is absolutely no justiication for use of deadly force. Good for you that you didn't shoot him because you would be charged with murder. And you are not the Police, you have no absolutely no authority to detain someone at gunpoint. You don't even know if he was the perp or the victim, and he could still have you arrested for brandishing, holding him at gunpoint, violating his civil rights. Plus your IA could pull your CCW permit.

Really? I have no authority to detain someone at gunpoint that jumped over a 6 ft. fence into my yard and was running towards me and my home at 9 pm?
Please find him and you both can have me arrested for the bold above,,then sue my civilly in a court of law. My first exhibit will be the video of him in the store shoplifting. The second will be the video of the police chase and crash. Then the judge will ask him a few questions,,,,first one is " how did you end up in this guys backyard ? " ,,then the bailiff will take him into custody and the local PD will come pick him up,,,case closed.

On the other hand,,,,,,This is California and you may have a point