Constructive Criticism Welcomed

[Cheeseball]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen,,,,as i shared in the OP I wanted your opinions in order to have us all learn something from an " actual " experience and not a fantasy hypothetical scenario.

I'm going to digest the replies and get back online this evening,,,,at work now.

thanks again for taking the time to reply

[KahrGuy9]

"I take a mental snapshot of this guy, especially his hands - they are both empty - NO weapon and I never once felt that my life was threatened "

So there is absolutely no justiication for use of deadly force. Good for you that you didn't shoot him because you would be charged with murder. And you are not the Police, you have no absolutely no authority to detain someone at gunpoint. You don't even know if he was the perp or the victim, and he could still have you arrested for brandishing, holding him at gunpoint, violating his civil rights. Plus your IA could pull your CCW permit.

[CAguy]

would you have done the same with out your weapon?

This is a very valid question and one that often goes unasked in bravado soaked conversations. It is one I always think to myself when someone mentions stepping in/helping out/standing up when armed.

Hero with a gun, coward without, is a real concern and a valid position/argument that merits discussion.

[ale014]

I think you did well for the situation. You reacted the best you can to the situation you were dealt. You're never going to have what you need in any situation you weren't ready for, eg the cell phone.

I may get flamed for this but i think you got balls of steel for checking out the situation in the backyard. You had absolutely no info on the chase, not sure what you were up against, what the perp's history was, but you were able to access his threat level and detained him momentarily.

Thanks for sharing your experience; this helps me out so i can think about what I would do if i was put in that situation.

[IVC]

I never once felt that my life was threatened - hence no discharge of weapon and dead, from what i found out from PD, shoplifter kid. Albeit the kid was 6' 220+

This is probably the most important aspect of any confrontation and you handled it well. Remember, if you're not in immediate danger you are not justified in using deadly force.

The mistakes I know I made - NO cell phone in my pocket while caring in the first place - regardless if it was at home. Never thought to get his wallet as I didn't want him reaching in any pocket to begin with and i wasn't about to take it from him and get into fist to cuffs and have my weapon taken from me. I did my best under the circumstances and just wish PD was on his tail as this story would have turned out different with the kid in cuffs.

Not having a phone was the only mistake *after* you made decision to step outside the house.

Whether you should have gone outside or not is open to interpretation. Generally it's much better to stay inside since you are better protected and chances are the kid running away is not going to try to break in. However, confronting him early *before* he decides whether it's a good idea to try to hide inside your house might not have been completely bad decision either. Hard to tell, especially when looking at it in retrospect.

I'd say you did really well overall. The initial mistakes didn't affect the rest of your judgment, so once you were out without the phone and the kid decided to run, you did exactly the right thing.

[mountainmark]

seems like a good situation for pepper spray...?

since he was in your fenced backyard, could you have tassed him, legally?

bet it was a helpless feeling standing there hoping some one would show up or hear you.

thanks for posting your experience

[glockman19]

You should have stayed INSIDE your house.

You aren't the police and it's not your job to apprehend people who pose no immediate threat to you. This could have ended VERY badly for you.

If he wasn't trying to get in your house you should have simply called 911 and reported what you saw and which way he went.

I completely agree with the above...Bold for emphasis.

[IVC]

And you are not the Police, you have no absolutely no authority to detain someone at gunpoint. You don't even know if he was the perp or the victim, and he could still have you arrested for brandishing, holding him at gunpoint, violating his civil rights. Plus your IA could pull your CCW permit.

While mostly true, there is still the concept of "citizen's arrest" and the person was inside *fenced* property, which is considered non-publicly accessible private property so the rules are technically the same as when inside the house.

The idea is not to detain the person, but to ensure that no harm is done. In that respect having him on the ground, but not reacting if he flees is the correct response.

[Noonanda]

I had a somewhat similar situation happen when I lived in Oklahoma. Drunk guy slams into a parked car about 12:30 at night like 3 houses up from me. He bails out of the car, the car owner chases him as the drunk jumps into my back yard. I wake up to banging on my front door, another person was telling me what was happening in my back yard. The owner caught the drunk and was fighting with him trying to detain him/ hold him for police. I tell the wife call 911, grab my pistol and hit the lights to the backyard. Open the door, car owner had drunk on his face. While keeping my distance from both, I inform owner(I recognized him) cops are on the way, I am armed and told drunk he better stay put. we all stayed there till cops showed up and took drunk away. Cops had no issue with me being armed as my wife informed them I was armed. When cops showed up I identified myself and that I was armed. Cops had me set my gun down and took control of the drunk, cleared my weapon and then gave it back to me. I had my pistol at the alert the entire time and thankfully did not need to use it. Cops actually told me good job, but I didnt really do anything but provide backup for the car owner.
But this was in a different state with different rules.

[madjack956]

I think you did well.

I got 6 foot walls all around my backyard. If someone ends up in my backyard its not an accident they are trespassing.

They have the time it takes my German Shepherd to realize there has been a security breech to shag their butt back over the wall, which isn't long.

Its a shame Cali laws suck so bad that a man can't defend his property unless a life threatening situation exists.

I think Texas has it right.

[teg33]

If you're not a cop, don't play cop.

[NuGunner]

The dilemma you felt is what off duty officers contemplate. Engage and how quickly can you get the calvary to come if it goes south?

Hence why its better to be a good witness.

[09rubicon]

I have to agree with the above, stay inside. If he tries to come inside or at you its a whole different story. That said your post brings up a great point. Lets say he did come inside, you draw down and he complies. You make the decision not to shoot (at least not until he tries something stupid). How do you secure him? Though I realize most here have no law enforcement or apprehension training I think people really need to think about how you would secure an intruder for the next 3-10 minutes (or more) until your local LEA arrives. Having a good set of cuffs or zip-cuffs is a good idea IMO. I am sure there will be others that will argue to keep your distance (valid argument), but I will not leave an individual unsecured while waiting for LEA response unless I have no other options (and then it is hold at gunpoint). Due to work I have access to zip-cuffs and keep several sets througout my home (in drawers or easily accesible behind items out of view).

[IVC]

If you're not a cop, don't play cop.

It's hardly "playing cop" when an intruder is on his fenced property running towards him.

[AregularGuy]

I'll join with the majority opinion here in saying it's always a better idea to stay inside. I respect your desire to keep our organized society running and want the bad guys to get apprehended, but that could have gone wrong in just about a million ways.

Ultimately you're not a cop, your "authority" only covers you protecting your own life and your family in your own home. Yes, the dude was on your property but I think after you heard the chase/crash you should have locked all doors, secured all family members, get the dogs in the house if possible, but mainly lock all doors, obtain firepower, and secure family in one room.

If the dude makes the mistake of trying to enter into your home, then your "authority" is now active but unless the dude enters your home and actively comes after you, it's not your job.

Yes, it's frustrating that there's a bad guy on the run, but it's not your job and there are some very serious consequences if you had to shoot that guy in your backyard, the first question the prosecutor would ask is "why did you go outside and play cop?" You just dropped a guy in your backyard when you could have hunkered down in your home and been safer. Next thing you know you've got Eric Holder coming to town as the family sues you and cries on TV wondering why this "racist" vigilante decided to "murder" their son.

Secondly, what if the dude DID have a gun? He could have killed you, and then what? You could have gotten into a mini firefight with the dude in your backyard, with bullets from both guns flying all over the neighborhood, then what?

Bottom line, you should stay inside and prepare to defend your family, but unless the dude enters the house, he's not your problem and he's certainly not covered under your "authority." I know it sucks so much because you've got the gun and feel like you can be a public asset in that moment, but it's not your fight, their are people paid and sworn into duty to handle these people.

Glad you made it out OK but that was not the best course of action.

The flip side of this scenario is: what if the dude did have a gun? You lock yourself inside, retreat to a happy place and call the police. In the meantime the thug breaks into your neighbor's house, a 85 year old woman that you grew up living next door to. He kills her and moves on. Would you be able to look yourself in the mirror everyday without asking, "what if..."

I think you did well. Nothing wrong with being in your backyard and securing your property. I've said it before and I will say it again, don't be a bystander.