I need help with Legal Document please

[gaddygat]

My father recently passed a away and left his firearms (he did not have a will but expressed his wishes to my mother) to my children. None of them are 18 years old yet. Speaking to my father's attorney, in order for me to take physical posession of the firearms (and temporarily register them in my name until my kids meet all the legal requirements to own firearm at which point I can transfer the firearms to my kids,) his attorney wants to have a document relieving my father's second wife of any liability for anything negative that may happen with any of these firearms. The firearms have never been registered in his second wife's name, but they are currently stored at her residence. My question is, if I were to create a document that listed any firearms being transferred in to my (temporary) posession, and also releasing the second wife of any liability, would this be a "legal document" that would be adequate to ensure the second wife is not held liable for any reason in the future ? His attorney indicated he could draft up a release of liability form for $250, but I honestly don't know if the firearm(s) would be worth $250. They may just be damaged or rusted away. I have searched for a general release of liability form online to alter for my situation, but I have not been able to find one. Any help or direction is appreciated.

[Condorguns]

For you to take possession for longer than 30 days the guns will have to be transferred to you. You become the legal owner, thus responsible. No need for release of liability.

[Tommy C]

I may be wrong, but I believe a father to son transfer requires no paperwork.

[philobeddoe]

None required but if the attny is asking, write him a letter, get it notarized, hand it to him.

When my pop gifted me some pistols he wrote letter, included serial numbers, and signed it. CYA, y'know?



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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

[gaddygat]

I understand that I would become the legal owner, and then perform an intrafamilial transfer to my kids once they meet the legal requirements, but the release of liability is his attorney's idea. He thinks that I'm going to turn around and sell them on the black market and if they are used for a future crime, he doesn't want my father's second wife to be liable at all. (black market scenario above is an exaggeration, but not too far off from his attorney's actual words.) I don't understand how (in his attorney's eyes) the second wife could be found liable for anything if they were never registered in her name? I think it's just the attorney's way of earning a few bucks for something unnecessary. The whole process is simply an intrafamilial transfer. He originally wanted me to use a mediator (a retired sheriff friend of his that helps with these types of transactions ) that was going to charge $500 for his services. After speaking to the mediator, he was ready to collect the firearms and meet me at an FFL to register them and perform the transfer. This mediator had no idea how an intrafamilial transfer worked with the DOJ. He believed ALL transactions need to go through an FFL.

[gaddygat]

In CA, it's just $19 and a few forms filled out and sent to DOJ to complete intrafamilial transfer of firearms.

[Condorguns]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Sounds like the lawyer is trying to get more money. Sounds like a real winner.

[gaddygat]

He's a winner alright. It may be my ignorance in "legal matters," but I fail to see how somebody who a firearm was never registered to could be found liable for any future "crimes?" The attorney advised me that the second wife doesn't want to have to pay for anything, otherwise she'll just turn in "my childhood" to the local pd. Sounds to me like the attorney just wants to get paid and is using her lack of knowledge to get her in his corner, as he has nothing to lose in this matter.

[Tommy C]

I understand that I would become the legal owner, and then perform an intrafamilial transfer to my kids once they meet the legal requirements, but the release of liability is his attorney's idea. He thinks that I'm going to turn around and sell them on the black market and if they are used for a future crime, he doesn't want my father's second wife to be liable at all. (black market scenario above is an exaggeration, but not too far off from his attorney's actual words.) I don't understand how (in his attorney's eyes) the second wife could be found liable for anything if they were never registered in her name? I think it's just the attorney's way of earning a few bucks for something unnecessary. The whole process is simply an intrafamilial transfer. He originally wanted me to use a mediator (a retired sheriff friend of his that helps with these types of transactions ) that was going to charge $500 for his services. After speaking to the mediator, he was ready to collect the firearms and meet me at an FFL to register them and perform the transfer. This mediator had no idea how an intrafamilial transfer worked with the DOJ. He believed ALL transactions need to go through an FFL.

The lawyer & the mediator are crooks that are bilking money from the estate. Tell them you will be taking the firearms & you will do the transfers yourself. Be firm & do not negotiate with these grifters.

[Gunsmith Dan]

The problem is from a legal standpoint you can not leave items that would be illegal to anyone will or no will.

So your father even if written in a will could not leave Firearms, Alcohol, his Cigar collection etc. to anyone that is under age as it would be illegal to do so. In order for the transfer to be legal the firearms have to be transferred to a "trust entity" to be held until the children are of legal age to receive the firearms.

The best way to do this on the cheap is for you to write a document (get it notarized and have a witness sign as well) for your step mother stating she will transfer the firearms to you to take possession of them from her and that when the children reach legal age you will transfer the firearms to them, then have her sign the document as well and give her a copy. This way you keep your fathers wishes, stay legal and save yourself a bunch of money (and tell the lawyers to buzz off).

The only legal issue your step mother would have if she handed the firearms directly to your underage children, then yes if they injure or kill someone one no matter the reason she could be liable. The reason her attorney wants a "release of liability" form signed is so that if the guns blow up and kills someone because they were not well taken care of so that the family can not sue her (that would her responsibility to pay the attorney for that document).

[Librarian]

The best way to do this on the cheap is for you to write a document (get it notarized and have a witness sign as well) for your step mother stating she will transfer the firearms to you to take possession of them from her and that when the children reach legal age you will transfer the firearms to them, then have her sign the document as well and give her a copy. This way you keep your fathers wishes, stay legal and save yourself a bunch of money (and tell the lawyers to buzz off).

A refinement - the trust needs to specify that if the beneficiaries of the trust become 'prohibited persons', the actual transfer cannot take place, so some compensatory arrangement will be executed instead. Or, if the beneficiaries are gang members, or other just plain unwise to give guns to, some other disposition would be made.

Which really means that a lawyer ought to write it.

[marksmandowntown]

I don't understand how (in his attorney's eyes) the second wife could be found liable for anything if they were never registered in her name? I think it's just the attorney's way of earning a few bucks for something unnecessary.

The second wife's attorney is watching out for the second wife, which is the right thing to do. Regardless of whether the guns have been properly registered in somebody's name or not, when you hand a bag of guns to a guy and put them out there into the world, you can be sued for what is done with those guns afterward, regardless of whether the transfer was done legally or not. This kind of thing usually happens with cars. When you lend your car to your irresponsible cousin/child/friend and they run somebody over, you are going to get sued. You know that form from the DMV called "Notice of Non-Responsibility"? It's about protecting yourself from a lawsuit after you no longer own or have possession of a car. That's what I am talking about. That is how our system works and that is why the lawyer is not full of ****.

[gaddygat]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I've opted to let my attorney draft the document and be done with the situation. Much appreciated!

[JDay]

No need to register long guns since a newborn can legally own them and they are exempt from long gun registration.

EDIT: Unless I'm missing something. This should be no different than a gift from grandpa.

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[Trriemferent]

first, im sorry for your losss.

Can you still do a inter family transfer if youre father has passed away. I thought both father and son had to be alive at the time of transfer.

Since the attorney wants this done, I would tell him to write it up and you will sign off on it after review.