1997 North Hollywood Shootout recollection (LONG!)

[Marquand]

BG shot himself but almost at the same time the cop shot BG in the neck.

That's my understanding as well. I have no evidence that one of B&B's rifles was used to fire the shot. Since SWAT team members had arrived by this time I doubt it was one of ours.

[madjack956]

I'll tell you what's crazy; half of all Calgunners were still probably messing their pants in 1997!

Hey buddy... old age incontinence is no joke!

[Marquand]

I work near where B&B used to be, and I was having a conversation with a coworker the other day. We were talking about how B&B helped that whole situation. I had never been to B&B, so I asked him "Well where are they at? I'd like to head over " and he mentioned that B&B was no longer around.

How did you folks go out of business if you dont mind me asking? I figured you guys would still be around considering how much you helped the LAPD with the situation. You would think these officers and many other officers would be making purchases from B&B from that point on. So I couldn't see how B&B would shut down due to low sales.

I left the company in 1998 and to my knowledge both stores shut down in either 2000 or 2001 for reasons I can't confirm but I don't think it was due to low sales. I suspect that it had to do with the constant infighting between the two brothers who owned the business. So much money was being spent taking each other to court, filing injunctions, and so on that I think they went into spoilsport mode and ran it into the ground to keep the other one from having it.

As for customers, B&B already had a solid base of both civilian and law enforcement buyers and our response to the robbery certainly bolstered that.

[Marquand]

Sir, a question for you, if I may.

Do you know if the AK's used by the goblins were converted to full auto or smuggled fully auto weapons?

At the time IIRC, there were news reports of smuggled full auto Chinese AK's being taken off container ships- intercepted by LE.

Thanks.

My understanding is that their primary weapons consisted of three Norinco Type 56 AKs of various configurations illegally modified by the pair to fire full auto, a Bushmaster AR Dissipator also illegally modified to full auto, a semi-auto HK 91, a Beretta 92FS, and about 3000 rounds of ammo in box and drum magazines.

Interesting side note: Phillips' AK, the rifle touted as always working under any conditions, experienced a failure during his escape and he could not clear the blockage, forcing him to transition to his Beretta 92FS. Just goes to show that any firearm can fail.

[Marquand]

Its funny that everyone that gets a form letter form Feinstein, it begins with how she supports the 2nd Amendment blah, blah, blah.

She supports it so much that she wants cops under fire take time to fill out paperwork to receive arms so they can protect fellow officers and civilians in a neighborhood that has turned into a war zone.

She should have been run out of office on a rail.

Anyone know of a good rail store in the Sacramento area? I'm buying!

[Ugly Hombre]

Thanks!

[pigpen66m]

I bought several firearms from the Westminster store. The last two a Dessert Eagle .50ae and a Ruger .454 Casull I got both just before they closed their doors. At the time I wondered end why it took so long to get my guns. When I went back to make another purchase and saw they were no longer in business it all came together.

[SonofWWIIDI]

Thanks for the post!

[CoopsDad]

I got my "forever" handgun safety cert from the Westminster B&B store and bought my first CA handgun from them- a Springfield 1911.

[erik_26]

So it's all about "expenditures" for you? To me, it's all about a properly well armed LEO coming home safely each night. Not one single cop chooses this profession and signs up to get his/her name mounted on a memorial wall there buddy.

. So answer this, how do we get "faster" response times??? Hire more cops and put them in the field? Whew-hew, tell me how to pay for that huge "EXPENDATURE?" Most times a "faster" response time alone is NOT feasible, nor is it reality. I live in reality. Again, I thought you're worried about "expenditures" as quoted above. Let's see, one AR-15 costs about $1,000. Hiring one new additional cop = about $70-100K EACH. An EXISTING cop armed with the proper AR-15 = priceless. Tell me more about your "expenditure" concern, please....


So that's what it all boils down to apparently. You're a "citizen" (like me), as well as a "tax payer" (like me) that's more concerned or jealous that you don't have some type of perceived "perk?" Seriously??? So far, I've read from you that it's "cops vs non-cops" and "perks vs non perks. You haven't explained MY only concern for both citizens AND the first responders. A first responder armed with the proper tools immediately SAVES LIVES OF people like you (and me) when you call 911! (What a concept, eh?)

I never saw or read about one single solitary "armed" "citizen" that run into that North Hollywood gun battle that day to confront the bad guys. Did you? Those LAPD officers were horribly unarmed because some "civilian" politicians for one, didn't think it was cost effective (aka: worth the "expenditure") to issue rifles to "our" first responders that day.

Read my old posts son. I've been a cop that has touted for years on this website that ALL law abiding CITIZENS should be benefited with the same carry and weapon laws of police officers! I'm all for a "shall issue" ccw for ALL mentally sane and competent CIVILIANS, period. Whereas you appear to be opposed to first responders being armed properly with the right equipment because it's an insignificant "expenditure" and you don't get the same falsely perceived "perks."

May I suggest that if you want some type of perceived "perk," why don't you join a police department then? It's open to you and we're always hiring somewhere.

I wouldn't make a good peace officer because of a few reason. I wouldn't be quick to take everyone to jail. I wouldn't be able to enforce unjust laws. I wouldn't be able to cover for corruption or others mistakes.

I would actually want to do good and not just inflate my stats with arrests for the DA to make stick or filling out ticket books.

But I am sure that at some point, nearly all peace officers signed up because they wanted to make a difference.

North Hollywood doesn't happen every day. The only commonality one could ever expect from another mass shooting spree is the intent of the perpetrator(s) to kill. The weapons and armor they use to execute such a deplorable act could be different every time. Your select fire and full auto weapons would have had zero affect on the outcome of Oklahoma City. For that matter, sniper gear, swat and all the mraps in the world would not have stopped that or saved lives. September 11, 2001 is another example of where such weapons and tactics are useless.

But, then what would I know. You are so much older and wiser than me since you obviously know me.

Obviously you are beyond having a reasonable conversation with, good day sir.

[chiselchst]

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with us. Very interesting, and always great to get an inside firsthand look & perpective...

[Citadelgrad87]

I wouldn't make a good peace officer because of a few reason. I wouldn't be quick to take everyone to jail. I wouldn't be able to enforce unjust laws. I wouldn't be able to cover for corruption or others mistakes.

I would actually want to do good and not just inflate my stats with arrests for the DA to make stick or filling out ticket books.

But I am sure that at some point, nearly all peace officers signed up because they wanted to make a difference.

North Hollywood doesn't happen every day. The only commonality one could ever expect from another mass shooting spree is the intent of the perpetrator(s) to kill. The weapons and armor they use to execute such a deplorable act could be different every time. Your select fire and full auto weapons would have had zero affect on the outcome of Oklahoma City. For that matter, sniper gear, swat and all the mraps in the world would not have stopped that or saved lives. September 11, 2001 is another example of where such weapons and tactics are useless.

But, then what would I know. You are so much older and wiser than me since you obviously know me.

Obviously you are beyond having a reasonable conversation with, good day sir.

Obviously your broad, totally unsupported generalizations, Such as your first paragraph, proves you are the one beyond having a reasonable conversation.

[Marquand]

I bought several firearms from the Westminster store. The last two a Dessert Eagle .50ae and a Ruger .454 Casull I got both just before they closed their doors. At the time I wondered end why it took so long to get my guns. When I went back to make another purchase and saw they were no longer in business it all came together.

Pigpen, do you recall what year that was? I still don't know exactly when the store closed and when people learn that I worked there I always get asked.

[spyde12]

Interesting side note: Phillips' AK, the rifle touted as always working under any conditions, experienced a failure during his escape and he could not clear the blockage, forcing him to transition to his Beretta 92FS. Just goes to show that any firearm can fail.

I actually watched the documentary on YouTube. They said the malfunction was an easy fix, but for some reason (thankfully) he decided to abandon it.

I also heard that one of the suspect's family tried to sue because they let the suspect bleed out. SMH...

[afteractionreport]

Wow great read i was 9yo and still remember this....