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[jeremiah12]

Home invasion outside of criminal on criminal activity basically happens never.
Crackheads don't team together to break into occupied houses.
Car jackings happens but its extremely rare except in very small areas of the country.

Its a bad way to live if you are worried that these tiny little rare events are going to happen to you. Its like anticipating winning the lottery but never buying the ticket. So rare.

Now if you live in a really bad neighborhood. You need a gun. You should probably carry all the time and you probably should be concerned.

Easiest way to not end up the victim of a violent crime. Avoid alcohol. Almost all victims of assault are drunk or have been drinking.

Under which rock do you live? Do you even follow local news or what is going on in your local community? Do you belong to a neighborhood watch group and get regular updates from the local PD so you know what to be on the watch for?

Two years, my FIL and MIL were returning from a shopping trip. They drove into their garage. Just before their garage door closed, 3 thugs with guns entered into the garage and held them at gunpoint. They took them into the house. After ransacking the house and getting all the money and jewelry, 1 took my FIL to the bank to withdraw money from the ATM while the other two stayed at the house with my MIL. When they returned, they beat them both and left. This same thing had happened to several other older people who had been shopping. They were followed home. The thugs get more money because people tend to hide the valuables and are more likely to talk when they are being threatened with death. They can also be driven to get money out of the bank, especially if there is a hostage at home.

Car-jackings are more common because newer cars are much harder to hotwire. With smart keys, most need the key to be in close proximity of the car in order for the engine to operate. So, car-jacking is the only way to steal cars. Chop shops are still a multibillion dollar a year business. Many times car-jackings happen when people are about to get into their cars when they are in a public parking lot. Their keys are out but they are not paying attention and someone comes up behind them and grabs the keys and shoves them to the ground. If there is any resistance, the car jacker often will just show a gun.

A couple of months ago in my community, a gang was sending a kid that looked to be about 8 to knock on the door. The kid was supposedly selling candy for school. When the person returned from getting some money to buy a candy bar, he was met with 4 armed teenaged thugs who proceeded to tie up everyone in the house and take everything of value. They would beat the people to attempt to get them to give up the location of hidden valuables.

So, some may say I am paranoid for answering the door armed with a firearm. I say I am being proactive. At least where I live, kids are being used as bait to get people to drop their guard so they become better victims. My door stays shut and locked and unless I know you or am expecting you, I may not even answer the door, but the firearm will be in my hands until you leave.

[Scratch705]

Any particular reason you don't have a gun at least loaded in the safe?

I hope you continue to be lucky and crime never comes calling.

cause in my 13 years of living here, i never had a reason to.

the most i have to worry about in my city is coyotes coming out at night and the occasional rich kid racing their luxury vehicles their parents bought for them at street lights.

i'm not saying that others don't need to keep a gun on them and such, but for me, in my situation, i do not.

[IVC]

I'm very skeptical of random home invasion. Some random dude drove to a random neighborhood, broken into a random house and spent time in the house collecting valuable then left without getting caught or shot. Possible but extremely doubtful. Why bother to go that far unless you already know what you're after, there are easier marks. How much time at 7pm can you spend creeping down the sides of houses before someone shoots your or calls the cops. He might have known one of your neighbors but more likely he was at the house before. Construction, termites etc.

Bad guys case neighborhoods all the time. I suggest you do some research starting with your local police report. You'd be surprised.

One thing I'll give you is that they try to avoid "hot burglaries" unless they are high or crazy. Unfortunately, the ones who don't care whether someone is home are usually the ones that are more than willing to commit *very serious* crime, not just burglary.

[FromTheGrave]

Under which rock do you live? Do you even follow local news or what is going on in your local community? Do you belong to a neighborhood watch group and get regular updates from the local PD so you know what to be on the watch for?

Two years, my FIL and MIL were returning from a shopping trip. They drove into their garage. Just before their garage door closed, 3 thugs with guns entered into the garage and held them at gunpoint. They took them into the house. After ransacking the house and getting all the money and jewelry, 1 took my FIL to the bank to withdraw money from the ATM while the other two stayed at the house with my MIL. When they returned, they beat them both and left. This same thing had happened to several other older people who had been shopping. They were followed home. The thugs get more money because people tend to hide the valuables and are more likely to talk when they are being threatened with death. They can also be driven to get money out of the bank, especially if there is a hostage at home.

Car-jackings are more common because newer cars are much harder to hotwire. With smart keys, most need the key to be in close proximity of the car in order for the engine to operate. So, car-jacking is the only way to steal cars. Chop shops are still a multibillion dollar a year business. Many times car-jackings happen when people are about to get into their cars when they are in a public parking lot. Their keys are out but they are not paying attention and someone comes up behind them and grabs the keys and shoves them to the ground. If there is any resistance, the car jacker often will just show a gun.

A couple of months ago in my community, a gang was sending a kid that looked to be about 8 to knock on the door. The kid was supposedly selling candy for school. When the person returned from getting some money to buy a candy bar, he was met with 4 armed teenaged thugs who proceeded to tie up everyone in the house and take everything of value. They would beat the people to attempt to get them to give up the location of hidden valuables.

So, some may say I am paranoid for answering the door armed with a firearm. I say I am being proactive. At least where I live, kids are being used as bait to get people to drop their guard so they become better victims. My door stays shut and locked and unless I know you or am expecting you, I may not even answer the door, but the firearm will be in my hands until you leave.

I'm not trying to question anyone's right to defend themselves. But, in these specific instances that you cited, there are only two outcomes.

You reach for your gun and are shot dead vs. getting robbed and/or beaten.

Or you are robbed for your gun and now the perps have another gun (that's in your name) to perpetuate more crime.

Not saying this for every situation, just the specific ones you mentioned.

[Supertac916]

cause in my 13 years of living here, i never had a reason to.

the most i have to worry about in my city is coyotes coming out at night and the occasional rich kid racing their luxury vehicles their parents bought for them at street lights.

i'm not saying that others don't need to keep a gun on them and such, but for me, in my situation, i do not.

My friend had a similar belief that Auburn was a quiet and safe town. He lived out there for well over 30 years and it's a town, where you can leave your doors unlocked. He always wondered why I had my CCW and guns readily accessible.

He has since changed his mind after a meth addict tried to break into his home at 3am last year. His guns were locked in the safe and unloaded. Fortunately, the police showed up within 5 minutes of his girlfriend calling 911. My friend was able to get his S&W model 60 out and aim it at the door that the man was trying to kick in. However, from what he told me it took a lifetime and he forgot what ammo went into which gun. My buddy knows he's lucky because he was able to barricade his front door to slow the guy down from getting into his house. Now he sleeps with a S&W .357 on his night stand.

[Ergo the Qualmed]

When I was a kid, my grandparents used to watch me sometimes while my mom was at work. One day we got violently home invaded; I was watching TV in another room and heard them kick in the door before herding myself and my grandparents into a bedroom. One of them almost executed me before his partner intervened; instead they settled on pistol whipping my grandpa in the head when he came to my defense. They stole a grand total of like, maybe $200 worth of crap.

This taught me a number of things. There is no such thing as a true "good area," not in an urban / semi-urban zone (this was in Orange county, East of Long Beach).

Locked doors are not a defense. And while it would be great to super-duper armor doors, windows, and convert your house into a fortress...at some point that becomes somewhat financially untenable, especially if you are renting.

And finally, answering the door with a pistol / keeping a ready firearm within reach while at home...in this home invasion, from my position, I had a grand total of maybe 10-30 seconds before they found me. That is not (in my mind) reliable time to unsecure and load a firearm. If I am taking a shower, what's better? The Glock on the counter, or the one in the living room gunsafe?

My point being, that it may seem outlandish and "bah only happens to crackheads" but having had this experience I will not hang my life on the generosity of an armed intruder.

Honestly, I don't know that I find many other people to understand what it's like. I'll give you a hint: not fun.

Certainly a gun will not help in all situations. Or even most. But really, in the gravest extreme, I would prefer not to be so foolish and headstrong as to willfully distance myself from yet another tool that may be used to protect my own life. My work carries me to Watts, Bell Gardens, Inglewood, South LA/Southgate etc on the daily, and given my appearance and other particulars of my job, I am made an obvious target. I do what I can to lessen my vulnerability, however if offered the chance to carry a firearm, I would take it. Why would you refuse? Some misguided sense of "not living your life in fear?" Taking prudent action when we are talking about the protection of ones own life, seems far from living in fear. To do otherwise seems extremely idealistic and naive, and belies a lack of understanding as to how the world actually operates. I realize that overall the chance of someone suffering from violent crime may be 1/100...but in my particular case, I can guarantee you it is higher than average. I'm not trying to just speak for myself, I'm using this as an example for why this whole "why would someone want to carry at work" line of questioning is a little less cut and dry than some of you would suggest. And no I will not find another line of work or more to a "nicer area" because quite frankly THAT would be acquiescing to a fear-based lifestyle, much moreso than adding another step to the "wallet-knife-keys" routine before I head out the door.

(I mean granted I think carrying an AR15 around the house all day or at work would be bothersome, but in the backwoods? Sure! And at home...how is transporting a pistol around at all inconveniencing?)

I also don't know why one would take pride in being unarmed in a known high-crime area. Seems like purposefully throwing safety to the wind is just as extreme as tactical...shenanigans? Whatever one would call a mall ninja.

[Scratch705]

My friend had a similar belief that Auburn was a quiet and safe town. He lived out there for well over 30 years and it's a town, where you can leave your doors unlocked. He always wondered why I had my CCW and guns readily accessible.

He has since changed his mind after a meth addict tried to break into his home at 3am last year. His guns were locked in the safe and unloaded. Fortunately, the police showed up within 5 minutes of his girlfriend calling 911. My friend was able to get his S&W model 60 out and aim it at the door that the man was trying to kick in. However, from what he told me it took a lifetime and he forgot what ammo went into which gun. My buddy knows he's lucky because he was able to barricade his front door to slow the guy down from getting into his house. Now he sleeps with a S&W .357 on his night stand.

Sucks for your friend.

but still won't change my mind. my physical home security is high enough that a meth head won't be breaking in short of using a battering ram.

oh and btw, i have experienced being robbed at gunpoint before when i was younger. back when we were living in alhambra. had a pistol pointed at me and actually pushed into my forehead to make my parents give up the cash. the thing is, i didn't get scared from that event, in fact, it started my interest in guns. i most likely wouldn't be a gun owner today if it weren't for that punk that robbed us that night.

[Hoshnasi]

You claim to have street skills, yet you went to a ghetto McDonalds were common items are kept away due to rampant theft. The managers even dismissed your question as crazy.

You had a sketchy feeling from assessing your surroundings, yet after the druggies, getting bugged for money and having people eye your watch you went in anyways, with your family.

During the trip to McDonalds you wished you had a gun, which in hindsight after there was no crime you deemed the gun unnecessary. How nice a position is it to view a gun as not needed when you're already back safe at home.

Perhaps you see fear in my posts because you live with such bravado and have no issues taking your family in places that set off your personal alarms. You entered a much higher risk situation and got lucky, good for you? I'd feel irresponsible.

Well low and behold we ended up on 98th and International blvd at a McDonald's and immediately after getting out of the car I felt a bit sketch as some guy was eyeing my watch, people were bugging for money, and they had only one entrance w/a alarmed exit.

My suspicions were confirmed when I spoke with the manager about why there were no self-serve sodas machines, ketchup dispensers, or napkin dispensers! (never seen this before EVER). She basically said "in this neighborhood? Please.". Then two junkies came in to shoot up in the bathroom.

For a second I wish I had a gun with me (or anything for that matter as I was totally unarmed less my meat-hooks) but it was mostly fear based after I thought about it. Sure there were rude, nasty, druggie, and ghetto folks but they were just carrying on about their business. I would usually just avoid a area like this or do what I did and keep aware of surroundings and use my "street skills" to communicate and avoid/deescalate any drama if it were to arise.

On my way out I really felt bad for the people who have to live there everyday and deal with the real threat of violence day to day. Most with nothing but their wits and local knowledge. I also felt glad that I didn't feel the need to carry a gun everywhere and appreciated my boring safe city just that much more. There have been some great posts as well about an ounce of prevention going a long way.

You acknowledge people in that area are threatened with crime daily and you then after the fact feel good because you didn't need a gun? This is some fantasy land stuff here.

Living in fear is no way to live. I guess that is why it kinda seems weird when people post about "must have a gun at all time" "everyone is out to get you" "the world is a scary place" paranoia type beliefs vs. causal cool calm preparedness that others seem to believe in.

You're advocating preparedness but in your story you were woefully unprepared and disregarded the obvious warning signs.

Seriously, I question what you think it means to live in fear. I don't live in woeful disregard for safety, that is not fear.

I agree it is good to have at least one gun loaded available or in a locked safe for preparedness. Though it seems that you think a gun is the only tool to use to deal with crime or potential crime. This type of thinking gets many into trouble. When all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail!

I never claimed that, implying so is naive.

Some of your post strike me as the fearful based type. If you happen to know someone who was struck by lighting would you prepare/live your life with the potential of being struck by lighting? Greensoup is right, most home invasions and crime in general is done by those known to the victim. Real random crime is very few and far between.

Do you not get out of water when there is lightening happening around you? Do you avoid tall metal objects in a storm?

And again, my point isn't that the chance of crime is rare. My point is that it is better to spend a little time to be prepared for said crime as the consequences of NOT being prepared are just not worth it. I couldn't live with myself if my family was harmed because I was not properly equipped when possible to stop a crime.

That is not fear, that is me a man having a clear understanding of the world I live in and what is in my control and what is out of my control.

Many here have expressed the fact that they keep a gun around and it's no big deal. Hell I keep a shotgun/pistol that I can access in under 1 min. That said it is the fear based, super ninja, totally insecure without a gun that comes off as irrational by some.

This is the best part of your post, I agree 100%. I at no time advocated any mall ninja antics. Look at my sig, I openly laugh at people like Gecko45.

There is an uncanny valley from what I have recommended here and the very small percentage of actual mall ninja types. There are certainly none on this post.

[CAguy]

I get that having/carrying a gun can feel like a security blanket and if that helps people sleep better or "feel" better then that's great. That said here is a Denver breakdown with some real numbers:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23656727/denver-residents-rarely-use-guns-protection-home-invasions

Point is that some people may be using a gun as a false sense of security. It can be a great self-defense tool in the right situation and right deployment opportunity.

[Hoshnasi]

When I was a kid, my grandparents used to watch me sometimes while my mom was at work. One day we got violently home invaded; I was watching TV in another room and heard them kick in the door before herding myself and my grandparents into a bedroom. One of them almost executed me before his partner intervened; instead they settled on pistol whipping my grandpa in the head when he came to my defense. They stole a grand total of like, maybe $200 worth of crap.

This taught me a number of things. There is no such thing as a true "good area," not in an urban / semi-urban zone (this was in Orange county, East of Long Beach).

Locked doors are not a defense. And while it would be great to super-duper armor doors, windows, and convert your house into a fortress...at some point that becomes somewhat financially untenable, especially if you are renting.

And finally, answering the door with a pistol / keeping a ready firearm within reach while at home...in this home invasion, from my position, I had a grand total of maybe 10-30 seconds before they found me. That is not (in my mind) reliable time to unsecure and load a firearm. If I am taking a shower, what's better? The Glock on the counter, or the one in the living room gunsafe?

My point being, that it may seem outlandish and "bah only happens to crackheads" but having had this experience I will not hang my life on the generosity of an armed intruder.

Honestly, I don't know that I find many other people to understand what it's like. I'll give you a hint: not fun.

Certainly a gun will not help in all situations. Or even most. But really, in the gravest extreme, I would prefer not to be so foolish and headstrong as to willfully distance myself from yet another tool that may be used to protect my own life. My work carries me to Watts, Bell Gardens, Inglewood, South LA/Southgate etc on the daily, and given my appearance and other particulars of my job, I am made an obvious target. I do what I can to lessen my vulnerability, however if offered the chance to carry a firearm, I would take it. Why would you refuse? Some misguided sense of "not living your life in fear?" Taking prudent action when we are talking about the protection of ones own life, seems far from living in fear. To do otherwise seems extremely idealistic and naive, and belies a lack of understanding as to how the world actually operates. I realize that overall the chance of someone suffering from violent crime may be 1/100...but in my particular case, I can guarantee you it is higher than average. I'm not trying to just speak for myself, I'm using this as an example for why this whole "why would someone want to carry at work" line of questioning is a little less cut and dry than some of you would suggest. And no I will not find another line of work or more to a "nicer area" because quite frankly THAT would be acquiescing to a fear-based lifestyle, much moreso than adding another step to the "wallet-knife-keys" routine before I head out the door.

(I mean granted I think carrying an AR15 around the house all day or at work would be bothersome, but in the backwoods? Sure! And at home...how is transporting a pistol around at all inconveniencing?)

I also don't know why one would take pride in being unarmed in a known high-crime area. Seems like purposefully throwing safety to the wind is just as extreme as tactical...shenanigans? Whatever one would call a mall ninja.

Damn fine post. I'm sorry you had to go through that experience, but your points are right on the money.

[kaligaran]

When all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail!

I realize I'm only quoting a small bit of your post, but this statement really irks me.

I've had a CCW for 14 years and carry regularly. I have had a few incidents that were a bit sketchy such as an extremely aggressive pan handler, a man road raging at me and a creep that followed me into a parking lot. But luckily, none of those incidents escalated to the point I felt my body/life was threatened. However, both of those situations could have turned quickly and had they, I would have been very happy to be armed.

Some antis would say that the gun could be taken away and turned on me. I would respond with, I'd rather take that chance. Because as a small woman, I do not want to ever leave my fate up to a (statistically) man which is larger and stronger than myself.

A firearm is the absolute best force equalizer.


It's extremely arrogant to tell someone that they are paranoid or crazy for wanting to carry <insert place or time here> just because you feel safe in that same situation.
Some people feel safe walking unarmed to their cars in a dark parking lot. That's fine, I don't.
Some people feel safe opening their front door to a stranger. That's fine, I don't.
Some people feel safe driving alone (especially at night) without a firearm. That's fine, I don't.


Do I avoid any sketchy situations? Yes of course. Do I LEGALLY exercise my right to carry a firearm for self-defense in the event the need arises? Hell yes.

By saying people shouldn't be scared or paranoid when doing X or Y doesn't help our cause and is no different than an anti asking why you need <insert gun here> or why you would ever need to carry a firearm.

[Hoshnasi]

I get that having/carrying a gun can feel like a security blanket and if that helps people sleep better or "feel" better then that's great. That said here is a Denver breakdown with some real numbers:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23656727/denver-residents-rarely-use-guns-protection-home-invasions

Point is that some people may be using a gun as a false sense of security. It can be a great self-defense tool in the right situation and right deployment opportunity.

The article is only proving the point that you should be armed or have ready access to a firearm.

Denver detectives have investigated cases in which a resident has a weapon but can't get to it quickly enough...

"A lot of people aren't going to be carrying a gun on them all the time in their home," Taylor said. "The problem with a home invasion is you're not expecting it. If someone kicks in your door, and the gun is in the safe, you may not be able to access it. ... That's the reason why in a lot of instances a firearm is not used."

But here is the icing on the cake

"If you introduce a gun, and they have one, they're going to protect themselves, they're going to be in control. Just as it is self-defense for you, it's just as much for them." Mauser said. "It's not as easy as a gun-seller would like you to believe. They're more into selling peace of mind than they are selling something you can use in a practical situation."

If they have a weapon or greater numbers they are ALREADY in control. Not having a gun doesn't return you some level of control, you are still out of control.

Having a gun gives you options. Carry it or keep a few in close areas.

[CAguy]

Hoshnasi-

I get that everyone wants to protect their family and all the ego/bravado that goes along with those beliefs. No one can prepare for everything and stop every action no matter how well intentioned.

You control the controllables and press on. I'm not a small guy by any means so there aren't many places I am genuinely afraid to go.

Also as a life long native, my threshold for sketchy is much higher than many transplants who seem to think that any difference = danger.

[CAguy]

-kaligaran

Carrying is great. Never said it was a issue. I'd just hope that you'd conduct yourself the same armed as unarmed and not go chasing waterfalls since you now have a "one-up" option.

I doubt you'd be able to shoot someone in any of those examples anyway as mere assault dose not constitute deadly force and in many cases basic battery (simple touch/push would not either).

Some people will get a CCW and nothing will change and it will be an extra tool in the force continuum. Others will go off the reservation and get a false sense of security (turn into brave cowboys) and that can be very dangerous physically, financially, and legally.

The real question is how (IIRC you are in my area) in the heck did you get a CCW?

[kaligaran]

-kaligaran

Carrying is great. Never said it was a issue. I'd just hope that you'd conduct yourself the same armed as unarmed and not go chasing waterfalls since you now have a "one-up" option.

I doubt you'd be able to shoot someone in any of those examples anyway as mere assault dose not constitute deadly force and in many cases basic battery (simple touch/push would not either).

Some people will get a CCW and nothing will change and it will be an extra tool in the force continuum. Others will go off the reservation and get a false sense of security (turn into brave cowboys) and that can be very dangerous physically, financially, and legally.

After carrying for so long, I'm very aware of the legalities of shooting and when it's a viable option. Luckily I have never felt threatened enough to do so.

But what you said above is very different than what you said in your first post. You posed questions about carrying and how (I'm paraphrasing) some people carry when they shouldn't need to because they are living in a 'safe' neighborhood or whatnot. That's what I had an issue with.

I will say that carrying does make me feel a LOT safer than when I'm not. It doesn't turn me into a brave cowboy and the same goes for every other person I've ever known with a CCW (which is a lot since I've lived in both TN and FL).

The real question is how (IIRC you are in my area) in the heck did you get a CCW?

I should clarify that 11.5 of the 14 years I've been permitted were not in CA.
I've lived in 3 states since I was 21 and have had a permit in all 3.

Yes, I'm in your area. I applied and was approved. I documented my process HERE when I went through it in San Mateo County if you're interested.