Gun Shaming

[L84CABO]

Your last 2 posts nailed it, but I've had people say "5 minutes isn't THAT long to wait! You could wait 7 for the police!"

I like to point out that a UFC round is 5 minutes long, and ask them how long they think they could last - and if they think they'd be able to last 5 minutes with multiple opponents. That usually gives pause. If it doesn't, it's because they're already on to the next counter "yeah but that'll never happen/almost never happens/what are the odds of that happening" etc.

That fact that someone thinks 5 minutes isn't too long to wait when you have an armed intruder in your house is a sign of gross ignorance. It's also a sign that your probably wasting your time trying to have a logical conversation with them.

And yea, I've gotten the whole, "the odds of it happening are so small," argument before.

I usually say that the odds of you being attacked in your home are pretty close to the odds of your house catching fire. But you still have fire extinguishers and fire insurance. And the reason that you have these is because while the odds may be small, the loss if it does happen is so great...hence fire insurance.

I also usually tell them that no man has the right to decide for another how great the risk to their life needs to be before a person has the right to defend themselves. Self defense and the preservation of ones own life is an inalienable right of all free men.

[autoduel]

I usually say that the odds of you being attacked in your home are pretty close to the odds of your house catching fire. But you still have fire extinguishers and fire insurance. And the reason that you have these is because while the odds may be small, the loss if it does happen is so great...hence fire insurance.

Actually you are 2x more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than a victim of a house fire.
There are an estimated 360,900 residential building fires a year. With 115,226,802 households in the US, your house has 1152 chance per 100,000 homes of burning.
While in 2011, there were 2250 victims of violent crime per 100,000 people.

[russ69]

If another man questions my choice to own firearms, I simply say, I'm not afraid of guns, or any other machine. You're not afraid of the toaster are you? Maybe it's not an intellectual argument but gun ownership is about individual owners not the bureau of crime statistics. I don't feel the need to explain to anyone what I do and why.

[He-Hate-Me]

To the OP: I would point out that owning a gun is just basic emergency preparedness. You should own a first aid kit in case of injury, a fire extinguisher in case of fire, and a gun in case of criminal activity. You have your bases covered, shame on him for not doing the same.

And if he thinks the police will show up in time to save him in case of a break in, just point at him and laugh. I was a paramedic for years and we regularly beat the cops to emergency scenes, even violent ones where they should be arriving first. Police response times in high density urban areas are typically really bad.

[SharpAsABall]

Thank you guys for great jumping off points, as well as ideas on noticing the normalizing reality of the presence of a firearm in a home. I've been reading about a CDC study that the POTUS had asked to be done on gun violence. Pretty interesting. I'm wondering why this didn't make it on the news. But so is life, I suppose.

As far as my shooting engagement this weekend, one of the two people I'm taking seems to have taken a, while slight, positive inclination towards our plans. They bought a pair of shooting glasses. That sounds like a good thing to me.

[SharpAsABall]

So, the recent shooting in Isla Vista has complicated things to say the least. That's my and my friends' alma mater, and one of the victims was my friend's former roommate, Katie. Needless to say, we didn't go shooting this weekend.

The LA Times reported that the shooter owned firearms legally and it was with his own personal gun that he shot those people.

I could go out and say that we really need to come up with a better way to screen for mental health issues, and I honestly believe that, not just for events like a shooting. It would help us across the board.

But that's not enough to appease those who are adamantly anti-gun. And I assume it wouldn't be convincing for "fence-sitters" (thank you guys again, for teaching me that term).

Aside from a campus vigil, Katie's friends will be hosting a smaller memorial for her college friends, and I've been asked to attend. She was a sweet girl and a great person, and I owe it to her to make the trip.

But...as far as gun shaming goes, this has got to be the worst case scenario that I didn't even think would happen before.

I wish peace to you all. May you all safely find what you seek, and success in all your endeavors.

[Merc1138]

So, the recent shooting in Isla Vista has complicated things to say the least. That's my and my friends' alma mater, and one of the victims was my friend's former roommate, Katie. Needless to say, we didn't go shooting this weekend.

The LA Times reported that the shooter owned firearms legally and it was with his own personal gun that he shot those people.

I could go out and say that we really need to come up with a better way to screen for mental health issues, and I honestly believe that, not just for events like a shooting. It would help us across the board.

But that's not enough to appease those who are adamantly anti-gun. And I assume it wouldn't be convincing for "fence-sitters" (thank you guys again, for teaching me that term).

Aside from a campus vigil, Katie's friends will be hosting a smaller memorial for her college friends, and I've been asked to attend. She was a sweet girl and a great person, and I owe it to her to make the trip.

But...as far as gun shaming goes, this has got to be the worst case scenario that I didn't even think would happen before.

I wish peace to you all. May you all safely find what you seek, and success in all your endeavors.

I'm not really sure what that nutjob has to do with "gun shaming". If for some reason you being a gun owner does come up, all you have to do is point out that you're a responsible gun owner and not an obvious nutjob like that idiot was. The guy also killed 3 people with a knife, are you afraid of being "knife shamed"? No.

[readysetgo]

Yeah, don't get weak knees now.

Why in earth does it even correlate? Nutjob coward owns a gun, I own a gun. POS kills innocent people, my gun will only be used on another when in mortal danger.

POS also owned a car, do car owners feel guilty?

Go shooting anyways. If not, you let this POS terrorize you further.

[SharpAsABall]

I'm always down to go shooting. My friend didn't bring it up, and from earlier enthusiasm to go shooting, I doubt they just forgot harmlessly. A combination of things may have contributed to them not remembering, or at perhaps not in the right mood to want to go shooting.

You guys are right about sticking firm though. I'll remember not having weak knees on this issue. I won't be attending looking for an argument. I owe my presence to her, and I'll stick to not owing anybody else anything.

It seems like I may have panicked initially. Thank you guys for the reminder.

[Dutch3]

I work for an elementary school district and am surrounded by anti-gun people every day. I don't attempt to hide the fact that I own firearms and will engage others in conversation when the subject comes up.

When the antis start in with the emotional hyperbole (they always do), I remain calm and rebut them with facts. Most are willing to listen, although it is difficult for them to comprehend that what they hear from the news media is often uninformed conjecture.

One teacher whom I have known for over 25 years asked me about buying a gun, as violent crime in the (very liberal) city where she lives has been increasing. I was surprised, as she is one of those "save the whales and butterflies" type of people. I recommended an indoor range close to her home where she could obtain some training and information.

She told me recently that her husband had purchased a pistol and they both have been taking classes at the range. Now she is talking about applying for a LTC.

I think the key is simply sticking to the facts. You will never change the minds of some people, but you will quickly alienate them if you go into the "cold dead fingers" routine.

[colossians323]

guns are evil, and if you give them to me, I will help you dispose of them properly

[readysetgo]

I won't be attending looking for an argument.

No doubt sharpasaball. A memorial for someone recently murdered is no place for either side of this argument. It's to honor and remember the life of that person.

If it weren't for foaming at the mouth anti gun radicals accusing the rest of us of misconduct, I highly doubt you'd hear much of any discussion about this as a gun issue from us. Because it's not, It's an "evil exists" issue IMO.

[Area 52]

I guess I don't really deal with it.
My friends know I am very pro-gun. I have a few friends that agree with me and most who are neutral (the type that would support "reasonable restrictions" but still understand wanting guns for protection). If the conversation comes up, I end it pretty quickly by saying "Criminals will always be able to get them if they want, so it only makes sense that regular people also have access to them for protection" and make it clear that it is pointless to discuss further. I have no illusions about convincing anti's to come to our side, I'm just trying to keep the few friends I have.

[Mitch]

The LA Times reported that the shooter owned firearms legally and it was with his own personal gun that he shot those people.

Half his victims were stabbed to death. Why is this a "gun issue?"

[SharpAsABall]

That is true. I imagine for her closer friends and family, they're more concerned (naturally so) with her particular case, which was death by gunshots. I wouldn't say it's impossible for them to see after the fact in the future that it's as a whole a violence issue and a mental health issue. But the immediate reaction that I've been reading from their posts on Facebook have been mostly a "gun" issue.

I'm sad that she's gone. I won't lie and say I was just as close as her own family. I don't know how it'd sound coming from me if I were telling her family it was more than a gun issue, but a culture of mental instability that goes unchecked. I imagine they'd dismiss me because it's more convenient. And honestly, I can't blame them because that's what emotions do to people.