What causes hang fires?

[SemperKilo]

I just read some of the hang fire sticky.

What causes a hang fire? The few times I've had a light strike I just throw the round down range and nothing ever happens.

It seems pretty simple to me- primer is your primary explosive, powder is your second. No primary ignition = no secondary ignition.

So during the 15-30 seconds that you are supposed to wait for the secondary to ignite, what are you waiting for? What is the primer doing during that time? If the primer didn't ignite with a firing pin strike, why would it ignite 30 seconds later with no further impact?

[Chief-7700]

Try firing the light struck round again most of the time it will work. Why do you throw them downrange?

[CSACANNONEER]

Voodoo, black magic, etc.



OK, really it happens. It can be a slow burning primer but, I think it is mainly due to bad powder that takes time to ignite. I had a hangfire just the other day. It was only about a second but, be safe and understand that you should wait AT LEAST 30 SECONDS before opening the action. If you don't, the results could be catastrophic. Light strikes don't cause hang fires.

Throwing live ammo downrange is irresponsible and could be dangerous to others. Please, don't do it again.

[SemperKilo]

What causes hang fires?

Try firing the light struck round again most of the time it will work. Why do you throw them downrange?

Because people always say they can ignite up to 30 seconds later and I'd rather not mess with that round and risk it blowing up in my hand and instead just keep shooting.


Sorry, that sequence sounded weird. If I get a fail to fire I do a "tap, rack, bang" and I throw the bad round down range in case it does ignite.

[CSACANNONEER]

Because people always say they can ignite up to 30 seconds later and I'd rather not mess with that round and risk it blowing up in my hand and instead just keep shooting.

If you don't want a round going off in your hand, KEEP THE ACTION CLOSED FOR 30 SECONDS. What you are doing is stupid. The ONLY SAFE THING TO DO IS KEEP THE ACTION CLOSED. If you can not understand this concept and the fact that your actions are dangerous, please, STOP SHOOTING until you get properly educated and understand how ammunition works along with how to SAFELY handle firearms. Your past actions are inexcusable and you have been putting yourself and others at risk.

[SemperKilo]

If you don't want a round going off in your hand, KEEP THE ACTION CLOSED FOR 30 SECONDS. What you are doing is stupid. The ONLY SAFE THING TO DO IS KEEP THE ACTION CLOSED. If you can not understand this concept and the fact that your actions are dangerous, please, STOP SHOOTING until you get properly educated and understand how ammunition works along with how to SAFELY handle firearms. Your past actions are inexcusable and you have been putting yourself and others at risk.

That sounds like pretty bad training. I've heard horror stories of people actually needing their gun and reverting back to how they train.

Heaven forbid, if I ever in am a fire fight, "tap rack bang" seems more life saving than, "wait 30 seconds."

All of the training I've received, both military and civilian, train to clear your gun and keep shooting if there's a malfunction. No professional instructor has ever had your recommendation.

I'll bring it up your method at tac-med later this year and see what they say in case anything has changed, then I'll let you know.

[SemperKilo]

Anyway, so what is happening in the primer during that time?

[ElDub1950]

What you do during an actual gun fight is very different than what you do during a day at the range.

That sounds like pretty bad training. I've heard horror stories of people actually needing their gun and reverting back to how they train.

Heaven forbid, if I ever in am a fire fight, "tap rack bang" seems more life saving than, "wait 30 seconds."

All of the training I've received, both military and civilian, train to clear your gun and keep shooting if there's a malfunction. No professional instructor has ever had your recommendation.

I'll bring it up your method at tac-med later this year and see what they say in case anything has changed, then I'll let you know.

[SemperKilo]

What you do during an actual gun fight is very different than what you do during a day at the range.

Not from the stories I've heard.

[jaymz]

If your in a firefight, and your life is on the line, tap-rack-bang might be your best option. Linking at the range - not so much.

[SemperKilo]

So training philosophy excluded, what is the primer doing during that 30 seconds?

[CSACANNONEER]

That sounds like pretty bad training. I've heard horror stories of people actually needing their gun and reverting back to how they train.

Heaven forbid, if I ever in am a fire fight, "tap rack bang" seems more life saving than, "wait 30 seconds."

All of the training I've received, both military and civilian, train to clear your gun and keep shooting if there's a malfunction. No professional instructor has ever had your recommendation.

I'll bring it up your method at tac-med later this year and see what they say in case anything has changed, then I'll let you know.

I'm an instructor. There's a difference between what you should do in a SD or combat situation and what you should do to stay safe while shooting in any other situation. The simple fact that you are ejecting a round which could go off at any moment and handling it to throw it down range is just plain STUPID in any situation.

Yea, the tap, rack, bang method is what you should do in a SD or combat situation but, I still don't see where it says to HANDLE the bad round. I have a friend who had a 50BMG round go off in his hand years ago. He's fine, his fingers are no longer straight or prefect though. He got lucky he didn't loose an eye or worse though. So, in the end, it is your decision to put safety first or put training first. Most of the time the tap, rack, bang method is used to clear a failure to feed properly and is just fine for that. But, do you really want to open the action on a live round that could go off at any moment? In a life or death situation, sure you do. In a non threatening situation? You need to access the risks to yourself and those around you and make your own decision. Do you have a family? How would they feel if you came home from the range blind? physically deformed? or, if they had to visit you in the morgue?

[CSACANNONEER]

So training philosophy excluded, what is the primer doing during that 30 seconds?

It is either smoldering before full ignition or, more likely it has gone off and the powder is smoldering until it fully ignites. It could be caused by not enough primer compound in the primer cup, cracked or broken primer compound inside the primer or contaminated or degraded powder.

[toby]

Not from the stories I've heard.

Stories is the KEY here,be safe or be stupid it's your choice but hey that's another story.

[SloChicken]

So training philosophy excluded, what is the primer doing during that 30 seconds?

Think of the primer lagging (i.e., hangfire) and it is kind of smoldering/sparking but not getting secondary ignition to the cartridge, or crappy power in the cartridge that is slow to ignite.

Both take time - think of the crappy, slow to light match, but may well come to full ignition in a few, or even a lot of moments.

Throwing it downrange makes it very random where or when/how it will ignite, and how exactly do you know where the shrapnel from the case or bullet is going to go once the "tossed" round ignites?

This, is why we don't want you throwing the round downrange.
Which is completely stupid and uses some of the worst rationale I have heard.

Look for a live ammo bin at your range. They all have them.

And wait 30 seconds (not if you are in a firefight - of course)

Furthermore, the whole tap, rack, bang sequence has to do with tapping the round back into rear of the magazine, then again inserting the magazine back into the well, re-racking to chamber a new round, and then pulling the trigger.

This is NOT what to do at a range during a hang-fire.

Unless you are under direct duress, there is no sound reason to hurry this.