Guard Card/Firearm Permit vs CCW

[TacticalChihuahua]

Just an observation here of security guards.....

A lot of the pushback that is given surrounding CCW's issuance is the argument that CCW owners aren't nearly as "trained" or "qualified" as someone in law enforcement and lord knows what chaos would ensue if some yahoo with a gun started firing off rounds.

Well take a look at your average guy driving around in a patrol car. These guys are given a firearm to carry around and go inspect potential burglaries and home invasions. The amount of training they receive is minimal. But California hands these things out like candy. Not at all difficult to obtain.

Now, I'm not at all bashing the idea of having a patrol service for your home. I mean, LAPD sure as hell isn't coming to the rescue for probably 2 hours if your alarm goes off (not a priority for them). So it is a viable option if it fits your particular needs, wants and desires. But my question is what differentiates one of these guys from your average CCW permit holder????? The answer is nothing. In many cases I (and I would suspect many of you) are a hell of a lot more trained and proficient with a handgun. Why are we, as citizens, repeatedly left defenseless and forced to rely on others to protect ourselves and loved ones??? I know I'm kind of preaching to the choir here but figured I would offer another perspective and some more ammo for your arsenal in defense for CCW

[Epaphroditus]

Like any generalization they are true in some cases only. I know many folk with guard cards and some are as you describe - there are some that are diligent, thoughtful and very serious about their business and are remarkably competent in their work. Kind of like anything ... some are exemplars, some are passable and some are to be watched every moment.

[TacticalChihuahua]

edited my post to "in many cases". You are correct. Not trying to bash here. The point I'm trying to make is that there is nothing that should differentiate or prevent someone from getting a CCW over a guard card. They both require a background check and both require minimal training. Both holders are just normal citizens....

[knucklehead]

A guard card does not allow you to carry. A firearms permit after you have obtained your guard card allows you to carry on the job.




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[1SAM]

there are a lot of guards out there who should not be working as a security guard, let alone carry a firearm while on duty. One of my co workers who is a supervisor, has said he doesn't even know how to clean his own weapon or how to field strip it. unfortunately, these people do not understand the responsibillty of carrying a firearm. Honestly, Bi-annual trainings are a joke, depending on the training facillty you go to. Lots of facilities just hand you a book and say "read it and take the test" or you pay them and they just certify you. i avoid these facilities! there are a few that actually do train you.

[TeddyBallgame]

my son has both a guard card, and, a firearms carry permit...it's only valid to and from work, at an armed post...although he has never worked an armed post, getting the permit was pretty easy

if I recall correctly, he had to take some classes, he got baton and pepper spray certifications too, along with the livescan process, then, he qualified at a authorized range...basically shot 50 rounds into a paper target, staying within the bodywork of the target

he does part-time security while going to school, not gonna be his life's ambition, but, I like him to keep his firearm permit up to date, seems like a good thing to have, if ever needed, so, I have him re-qualify with it every 6 months

then again, the way I look at it, there should be no reason my son couldn't CCW either...he has no past contact at all with LE, he's already got good firearms training, been shooting with me since he was 9

obviously the CCW far outweighs a firearm permit...they do have many restrictions on the person who has one

[ChrisC]

But my question is what differentiates one of these guys from your average CCW permit holder?????

The difference is a CCW or LTC holder can carry 24/7, a guard can only carry on the job and usually also only to and from work.

[HighLander51]

Falz24, if you have a CCW permit then you understand the difference. If you don't, then well, you don't.

[TacticalChihuahua]

The difference is a CCW or LTC holder can carry 24/7, a guard can only carry on the job and usually also only to and from work.

Falz24, if you have a CCW permit then you understand the difference. If you don't, then well, you don't.

No one is realistically carrying 24/7. Unless maybe you drink a lot of coffee. A guard is packing for his 8 hour shift and to and from work. Say 10 hours a day 5 days a week. I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. They are given permission to carry in order to protect themselves and others. Same is true of a CCW holder. Yes a CCW holder is given more freedom concerning carry but there are a lot of similarities

[TeddyBallgame]

No one is realistically carrying 24/7. Unless maybe you drink a lot of coffee. A guard is packing for his 8 hour shift and to and from work. Say 9-10 hours a day. I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. They are given permission to carry in order to protect themselves and others. Same is true of a CCW holder. Yes a CCW holder is given more freedom concerning carry but there are a lot of similarities

You can't CCW as a guard, and, you can only have a firearm holstered to you in the line of work...you can't carry to the grocery store, the park, or any other place not within the confines of your job

really, there should be no difference if someone is worthy of doing either, if that is the point you're trying to establish...only difference with the guard firearms permit is that you don't have to go through a LE interview, or, any other LE criteria, other than the standard background and livescan

[CAguy]

You can't CCW as a guard, and, you can only have a firearm holstered to you in the line of work...you can't carry to the grocery store, the park, or any other place not within the confines of your job

really, there should be no difference if someone is worthy of doing either, if that is the point you're trying to establish...only difference with the guard firearms permit is that you don't have to go through a LE interview, or, any other LE criteria, other than the standard background and livescan

That's not entirely true. If you go there during your drive in/from your work or lunch break you can armed. It is part of your uniform and leaving it in the car could lead to theft. There is no law that says you can't stop anywhere. Now if you don't have a shift and you get dressed up to wear it then yeah, no go.

[Librarian]

That's not entirely true. If you go there during your drive in/from your work or lunch break you can armed. It is part of your uniform and leaving it in the car could lead to theft. There is no law that says you can't stop anywhere. Now if you don't have a shift and you get dressed up to wear it then yeah, no go.

I don't think so.

The PC is 26030; the applicable sub section is (a)(10)

(a) Section 25850 does not apply to any of the following who have been issued a certificate pursuant to subdivision (d):

(d) The Department of Consumer Affairs may issue a certificate to any person referred to in this section, upon notification by the school where the course was completed, that the person has successfully completed a course in the carrying and use of firearms and a course of training in the exercise of the powers of arrest, which meet the standards prescribed by the department pursuant to Section 7583.5 of the Business and Professions Code.

...
(10) Uniformed security guards, regularly employed and compensated in that capacity by persons engaged in any lawful business, and uniformed alarm agents employed by an alarm company operator,

while actually engaged in protecting and preserving the property of their employers, or

on duty or

en route to or from their residences or their places of employment,

and security guards and alarm agents en route to or from their residences or employer-required range training.

(Reformatted for clarity)

The 'en route' language does not allow for stopping for gas or lunch or hitting the Post Office. Normal observation will show this language is frequently ignored by guards.

[TacticalChihuahua]

You can't CCW as a guard, and, you can only have a firearm holstered to you in the line of work...you can't carry to the grocery store, the park, or any other place not within the confines of your job

really, there should be no difference if someone is worthy of doing either, if that is the point you're trying to establish...only difference with the guard firearms permit is that you don't have to go through a LE interview, or, any other LE criteria, other than the standard background and livescan

Yes that's the point I'm trying to make. A security guard (basically your everyday citizen that takes a course), in restrictive counties like Los Angeles or SF for example, has to pass a simple test and is allowed to carry. Your average citizen who passes similar qualifications (as they must do to obtain a CCW) should be able to as well.

[Quiet]

But my question is what differentiates one of these guys from your average CCW permit holder?????

BSIS guard card + gun card = open carry while in uniform and working or going to & from work.

CA LTC permit = conceal carry any time and anywhere not prohibited by law.

[TeddyBallgame]

That's not entirely true. If you go there during your drive in/from your work or lunch break you can armed. It is part of your uniform and leaving it in the car could lead to theft. There is no law that says you can't stop anywhere. Now if you don't have a shift and you get dressed up to wear it then yeah, no go.

while it's not specifically stated as allowable, im sure many guards do make "side stops" outside of their normal to-and-from work...I think they are taking a chance, and, if some overzealous LEO wants to press them on it, it could be a problem

me personally, when I see an armed guard, no matter where they are at, working or not working, I couldn't care at all in the least if they are on the job or not...im not sure if LE bothers with it either, really, why should they...to hassle a guy for making a stop between home and work would seem like a waste of time

I asked my son what type of instructions was he given during his class for his carry permit...other than telling him he could be armed to and from work, they never really touched based on how much restrictions there were, concerning a 7-11 stop or something similar