First Chicago CCW Arrest

[CAL.BAR]

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/themargin/2014/03/31/longtime-concealed-carry-holdout-chicago-has-first-arrest-of-permit-holder/

SO... how can we help keep this from happening in CA? With Peruta,we have a unique opportunity to prove the anti gun folks wrong on the perceived dangers of CCW. But in order to do so, we MUST keep this kind of stuff to an absolute minimum.

[Shasta Frog]

Well if you pull your gun out on your lanlord following a rental dispute then ya you should be arrested. This has nothing to do with ccw

[dca965]

Well- it is CLEAR to me that the CCW/LTC holder used pi** poor judgement by "pointing" his weapon during an argument. Unless he can illustrate immediate danger (beyond words) to life, or the lives of others, he should have left the weapon either at home or, at a minimum, in the holster. This is exactly the fodder the anti-2A's like to use in their rhetoric against us. CA is now under a "national" microscope so all responsible and law abiding gun owners, both CCW/LTC, and otherwise should not allow themselves to be put in such a position of potential removal of the RKBA.

[SacTown]

I will never pull my gun out unless there is no other option. If I'm going to have to pay court and lawyer fee's, it's going to be because someone was trying to kill me or my family. Hopefully this guy had a legitimate reason, but the initial story doesn't seem like it is so. Could be fuel for the antis.

[Librarian]

O’Connell was involved in a quarrel over rent money with a 52-year-old man on March 23, police said. O’Connell allegedly pointed a handgun at the man and threatened to shoot him.

http://www.suntimes.com/26503501-761...n-chicago.html

how can we help keep this from happening in CA?

-- don't commit crimes.

[bruss01]

The article is woefully short on details. It supposedly occurred during an argument over a rental property. The gun owner had a carry permit and a valid FOID card. It does not say if the guy blew a fuse and pulled out his gun over a trivial argument... or if he was seriously threatened and felt in fear of his life or grave bodily harm. Without that information, there's no way we can comment intelligently on the incident.

Example - landlord "So how's about you pay the back rent, deadbeat?!" The tennant "Eat lead you SOB! (PULLS GUN AND WAVES IT AROUND) I'll pay you when I gotz da money!"

Obviously, bad - gun owner going to lose his guns and maybe do some time.

Alternate example "So how's about you pay the back rent, deadbeat?!" The tennant "My check comes next week, if you can give me just a little more time..." LL - "How's about I break a leg or two, huh? Then maybe you take me serious?" T - "Hey, calm down..." LL- "Don't tell me to calm down loser! I oughta gut you like a stinking fish! (fondles knife on belt)" T- "WHOA! Back off there!" LL- (grinning, leaning in) "Or what? Maybe I take you outta circulation and actually get someone who pays his bills - whachoo gonna do about it?" T - (draws ccw) "I'm gonna defend myself, that's what... now back off! Don't come any closer..." LL - "Oh, you gotta piece? We'll see how popular that makes you wit da coppers, big man!" (calls 911, police come, reporter writes terribly insufficient article)

In the second instance, we'd be inclined to side with the tenant, who felt he was facing a legitimate enraged adversary who threatened him.

But based on the skimpy article, the average reader will naturally be more likely to assume scenario #1 rather than #2.

[GillaFunk]

NO ONE was killed or injured.

No child's life was taken

Meanwhile, armed thugs probably killed 5 innocent people today, yet we are going to freak about 1 single idiot pulling his gat when he shouldnt have?

(rolls eyes)

[gun toting monkeyboy]

The article is woefully short on details. It supposedly occurred during an argument over a rental property. The gun owner had a carry permit and a valid FOID card. It does not say if the guy blew a fuse and pulled out his gun over a trivial argument... or if he was seriously threatened and felt in fear of his life or grave bodily harm. Without that information, there's no way we can comment intelligently on the incident.

^This^

The details are lacking. While he pulled a gun in a dispute over rent, they don't give us any of the background on what exactly happened. If the landlord forced his way into the house/apartment without the renter's permission, it could be a legal use of force. If it is the landlord that drew the gun, was he responding to a threat of violence? Was there a reason that the CCW holder drew down on the guy? Without that kind of information, none of us can say if it was justified, and the CPD are going to end up getting hit with a massive lawsuit, or the guy was a douche, and will be going to jail for a long time.

-Mb

[dscoduc]

Let's not forget that the guy was arrested, not convicted (yet?)... His CCW was revoked due to being involved in a proceeding:

The state police have revoked O’Connell’s permit based on a provision of the concealed carry law that says permit holders can’t be the subject of a “proceeding for an offense or action that could lead to disqualification to own or possess a firearm,”

So assuming he is found not guilty it would be expected that he can get his CCW returned?

Let's also not forget that the news tends to report whatever their agenda is, which may explain why there isn't much details and paints the guy as some trigger happy jerk - even though maybe he is the paper isn't going to be a good source for knowing the difference...

[Mithrandir13]

after what happened to george Zimmerman... no way I would resort to a pistol unless my family or myself were gonna die if I didn't!!

There is a lot of merit to retreating whenever it is possible! Just ask the civil attorneys!
.
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[Sir Stunna Lot]

So from Sun Times...

pulled a gun during a property dispute

Was his life in danger? Or was he the aggressor?

O’Connell was involved in a quarrel

Once again, was his life in danger? Or was he the aggressor?

charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon

After being threaten or was he the aggressor?

The Sun Times seems to leave out a lot of important details. My guess is that this was a legitimate case of self defense, this was a wrongful arrest because the stupid illinois cops dont know how to handle a ccw situation, and the Sun Times tried its darnest to word this article to be as much anti gun anti ccw as possible without "lying".

[Old_Bald_Guy]

after what happened to george Zimmerman...
.

.

Nothing happened to Zimmerman.

[Sir Stunna Lot]

Nothing happened to Zimmerman.

[bruss01]

Nothing happened to Zimmerman.

No, nothing happened... except...

Thousands in legal expenses...
Marriage ruined...
Made into a medai-fueled object of hate
Target for women who want to get him in trouble (F'd up beotchs)
Target for the national anti-gun agenda machine

It'll be a decade or more before this guy can relax and live a normal life.

Nope, nothing happened.

[CAL.BAR]

To get back on topic, my point was that WE as CALGUNS mustbe at the forefront of this issue. To make sure NONE of our members screw this up for the rest of us. We have a CCW subforum. We have the organization and the knowledgeable people to help avoid THIS very kind of event. The question is how best to reach these folks (especially those who are not on the board)