Army overhauls weapons traing and qualification...

[Prowler]

Read this on ARFCOM...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=389554

[FMJBT]

Now if only the Navy would do the same thing. Our rifle quals are at 25 yards with a 1/4 sized target to simulate shooting at 100 yards. As a result, all of our rifles are zeroed for 25 yards. It's pretty retarded.

[aplinker]

Now if only the Navy would do the same thing. Our rifle quals are at 25 yards with a 1/4 sized target to simulate shooting at 100 yards. As a result, all of our rifles are zeroed for 25 yards. It's pretty retarded.

I think 25m = 400m... that's just the old zero. 50/200m is the new.

[ChrisXD45T]

When does this start? ...because we had Army from the DLI do quals here at Laguna yesterday and today and they set up to shoot at 25m.

[Spaceghost]

Pffft, I see nothing wrong with the old method of twenty rounds from a fox hole and twenty rounds from prone. What the heck is this shooting from behind cover crap?

Wow, none of the weapons in the pic have a rear BUIS. Any active guys know what the deal is?

[M1A Rifleman]

Read this on ARFCOM...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=389554

Zero at 25 yds is near zero at 100yd, which was std practice for the Army with the M14 in the late 60's. I think this issue is training as you fight and getting used to seeing a target image at 100yd vs 25.

[CavTrooper]

The 25 meter zero = 300 meters w/ M-16 or M4. The new postitions for qual have been being used for awhile now, around a year or so, in basic training. In line units, itll take a whole lot longer to install.

[Army]

As I have stated before, this does NOTHING to train how to shoot accurately. If the rifleman has no idea where or how his rifles shoots, then he's better off being a cook.

I have long advocated the return to the KD range, to emphasize and learn shooting basics, and to have a visible history of your shot string. Once the skills, confidence, and weapon knowledge has been ingrained...THEN go to the "combat range" to learn tactical shooting.

If you don't know about windage, or hold over/under, all the shooting at pop-ups will just be so much wasted ammo.

At FOB Delta, I took my people to the range many times. Not once did we shoot less than 200yds. Not one Soldier could hit a standard sighting in target at that distance with ten rounds. But by the end of the day, each of my men could but all their magazines into a soccer ball at any distance out to 400yds (that's all we had). Needless to say, any shooting we did in town, was rather one sided in its outcome.

[berg]

Easier to read article here: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0...nship_050408w/

[apbrian112]

I think 25m = 400m... that's just the old zero. 50/200m is the new.

25/300m was the standard... 25m zero, then qual from the foxhole then, prone.
i don't know about the other guys who served in the army but i haven't seen a foxhole outside of OSUT and weapons qual.

it'd be better if they grouped PT with weapons qual. last time i checked you don't go into battle with your PT uniform on (except on rare occasions)... then after your 2 mi run you qual while your BP and HR are still up.

[apbrian112]

Wow, none of the weapons in the pic have a rear BUIS. Any active guys know what the deal is?

when we were issued our m68 (aimpoint) they didn't give us a BUIS. instead, we placed our M68 on the top rail and kept the carry handle with us. not the best solution but i guess enough of a solution to not spend the extra $100-150 per soldier to equip us properly.

the only guys i saw run with buis were the guys who either purchased them before we deployed, or got them sent over (via family) once we were in theater.

[Spaceghost]

That was the answer is was expecting, but hoping not to read.

when we were issued our m68 (aimpoint) they didn't give us a BUIS. instead, we placed our M68 on the top rail and kept the carry handle with us. not the best solution but i guess enough of a solution to not spend the extra $100-150 per soldier to equip us properly.

the only guys i saw run with buis were the guys who either purchased them before we deployed, or got them sent over (via family) once we were in theater.

[ojisan]

Needless to say, any shooting we did in town, was rather one sided in its outcome.

Well done, Sir!
(that was the answer I ws hoping to read!)

No BUIS? WTF?

[ricknadine1111]

Now if only the Navy would do the same thing. Our rifle quals are at 25 yards with a 1/4 sized target to simulate shooting at 100 yards. As a result, all of our rifles are zeroed for 25 yards. It's pretty retarded.

That is because you are not shooting 1000 yards on a ship

[aplinker]

As I have stated before, this does NOTHING to train how to shoot accurately. If the rifleman has no idea where or how his rifles shoots, then he's better off being a cook.

I have long advocated the return to the KD range, to emphasize and learn shooting basics, and to have a visible history of your shot string. Once the skills, confidence, and weapon knowledge has been ingrained...THEN go to the "combat range" to learn tactical shooting.

If you don't know about windage, or hold over/under, all the shooting at pop-ups will just be so much wasted ammo.

At FOB Delta, I took my people to the range many times. Not once did we shoot less than 200yds. Not one Soldier could hit a standard sighting in target at that distance with ten rounds. But by the end of the day, each of my men could but all their magazines into a soccer ball at any distance out to 400yds (that's all we had). Needless to say, any shooting we did in town, was rather one sided in its outcome.

How long did it take for them to jog out, drop their mag and put it in the ball? I wouldn't think that many would fit.