Scotland and Gun Rights

[AceGirlsHusband]

There is news in CNN this morning about Scotland possibly seceding from the UK this coming fall. If they did, I wonder if Scotlanders (or the Edinburgh government) would legislate a return of their firearms priviliges and ease up the current, prohibitive, UK laws in the new nation?

It would be nice to see a European nation adopt such a course. But I have no idea what the probablility of such a move in Scotland would be.

[harmoniums]

There is news in CNN this morning about Scotland possibly seceding from the UK this coming fall. If they did, I wonder if Scotlanders (or the Edinburgh government) would legislate a return of their firearms priviliges and ease up the current, prohibitive, UK laws in the new nation?

It would be nice to see a European nation adopt such a course. But I have no idea what the probablility of such a move in Scotland would be.

Doubtful, the Scottish have sectarian issues, think Northern Ireland "Lite".
That'll be enough for them to kibosh anything like a constitutional protection to keep or bear arms when they get around to drafting one.

[smle-man]

My take is that Scotland is a pretty liberal area in the UK. I don't know if that means leftist or libertarian. I just learned that Northern Ireland has looser hand gun laws than the rest of the UK (except for the islands around Britain which are even less restrictive - maybe worried that the French will invade) permitting target shooters to possess normal length handguns.

[Epaphroditus]

The Scots used to be big on liberty and freedom but they got that beat out them pretty good. There was a 'diaspora' of sorts so those Scots that got displaced tend to harbor lingering dreams of liberty and freedom.

Who knows what the future holds?

[baka]

As a former FAC holder in the UK many moons ago - Let me tell you it makes CA look like a picnic!

You could not as a regular Joe own a weapon for personal protection.

You used to have to put Target/Competition as the reason you wanted to become an FAC holder on the application (unless you were a farmer or some sort of private bodyguard armed security etc).

After the six month approval and background checks I was fortunate to be granted my FAC for four weapons.....

I had to provide an approved gun safe fastened to the floor and an outside wall before approval was granted.
1. The weapons could not be loaded in your home.
2. Ammo had be locked in a separate compartment.
3. You had to have current membership to a gun club.
4. The police could come and check on the weapons and ammo at anytime of the day or night.

You had limits on the amount of ammo you could have in your possession at any one time.

All ammo bought was recorded on the bottom of the FAC by the gun store.

You could buy reloading supplies without them being recorded - this was how some people worked around the limits.

I was the proud owner of:
S&W 686 357
H&K 9s Sport 9mm
S&W Model 41 22LR
Erma M1 Carbine Copy 22LR (Welded Silencer - Great bunny gun)

Miss those guns.........

[Epaphroditus]

I believe even possession of a knife for the purpose of self defense is a criminal offense in the UK. One can only imagine the complexities of firearms ownership in such a context!

Possession of a knife is not illegal per se as it depends on possessed for what reason that counts.

[emptybottle151]

[covingtonhouse]

If. I remember correctly, it was a grade school shooting in Scotland that really ramped up the v regulation in the UK. Maybe back in the early 90's?

[M1NM]

1745 the English prohibited the Scots from having weapons. They went so far as to ban the bagpipes as an implement of war.

[baka]

There were two main mass shootings in the UK that led to a lot of the restrictions - Hungerford and the Dunblane school Massacre.

Little known fact...... Andy Murray (Tennis Player) was eight years old and survived the attack by hiding under a desk during the Dunblane attack.

[gator68]

Scotland won't vote to become independent. They've already got an independent parliament and can set their own domestic rules.

Even if they voted to become independent they would not loosen any gun laws. Braveheart was a long time ago.

[Rosereader]

I only know two Scots and both of them are envious of us Californians. One even went so far as to want to move here (shocking!) largely because he loves guns despite his government's best efforts and the other occasionally brings up how fees and the like caused his father to give up a shotgun he had back when he was young.
That said, I doubt they'll secede. I'm far from an expert on the Scottish/UK political climate but it just seems highly improbable and even if they did it is unlikely that they would draft a document similar to the 2nd Amendment if only for the reason as it would cause tension with the rest of the UK.
Think about it, if they seceded the border would logically remain open but a free arms trade (or even a lightly restricted arms trade) would cause huge problems. It would force the UK to either loosen their respective legislation (not going to happen) or start patrolling the border, commencing searches and the like. Think our border with Mexico. It would be expensive and only of limited effectiveness, and because of that there would be too much pressure on the Scots to emulate their neighbor's policies.

[M1NM]

Scotland won't vote to become independent. They've already got an independent parliament and can set their own domestic rules.

Even if they voted to become independent they would not loosen any gun laws. Braveheart was a long time ago.

Some of the facets of their Parliment still must conform to rules the brits put in place. Also many scots haved served in the military and know the value of individule weapons.
After the battle of Colloden in 1745 the English were hunting down the rebels and killing them off. They came upon a more profitable method. They were sent to the American colonies as bond slaves. Most of them escaped and moved back into the hills of the Appalacia mountains. They made a lot of contributions to the revolution. They wanted the brits out of their new home too.

[smle-man]

Some of the facets of their Parliment still must conform to rules the brits put in place. Also many scots haved served in the military and know the value of individule weapons.
After the battle of Colloden in 1745 the English were hunting down the rebels and killing them off. They came upon a more profitable method. They were sent to the American colonies as bond slaves. Most of them escaped and moved back into the hills of the Appalacia mountains. They made a lot of contributions to the revolution. They wanted the brits out of their new home too.

The rank and file of both the American revolution army and the Confederate army contained a high amount of Scots/Irish. Troublesome, quarrelsome blokes! (I'm half Irish - on my mother' side - so I can say that!). it wasn't due to ideology as much as wanting to be left alone.

[JoshuaS]

Stop right now comparing Scotland and N. Ireland.

Scotland sought to pass even more restrictive legislation on firearms, but was denied this. Such legislation reserved to the Westminster Parliament. Unless it has radically changed in the last 10 years since that request was made, no go.

Now if you had to move to the UK, you would go to North Ireland. Because of the Easter Accords, they have more independence. It is the only part of the UK you can own a regular handgun, or for that matter automatic weapons. And it is the only part that grants firearms licenses with self defense as cause. And if granted for self defense, usually it allows concealed carrying and may allow automatic weapons. It is may issue but a good number have that.

So yeah, Scotland has repeatedly voice desire for even stricter gun control, Northern Ireland is much freer. Though you cannot bring your handgun to the rest of the UK.

In Ireland proper, between 2004 and 2008 the number of legal, privatelyowned handguns went from 1 to over 1800, after a court struck down a law banning them. But they were re-banned in 2008, though the legal ones were grandfathered.