ABC's 20/20 - "Young Guns"

[Jimi Jah]

Breaking news!

Children are attracted to shiney metal objects!

[Mr.EBR]

should I even attempt to watch this, I always like to see what the other side is thinking. But I also don't want to encourage them to make more garbage like this if I add another view to their video.

[njineermike]

should I even attempt to watch this, I always like to see what the other side is thinking. But I also don't want to encourage them to make more garbage like this if I add another view to their video.

I won't be wasting my time watching a contrived situation where they set up a rigged experiment to get the results they wanted, all for the scare tactics and $$ associated with exposure and mediaa airtime share.

[m03]

I am going to show him this documentary because I wan't him to understand how important gun safety is and how important it is to keep them locked up because he has a 10 year old and a 12 year old.

Did you do the same thing when they were learning to swim? Are you going to do the same thing again when he's teaching them to drive a car? Serious question.

I won't be wasting my time watching a contrived situation where they set up a rigged experiment to get the results they wanted, all for the scare tactics and $$ associated with exposure and mediaa airtime share.

They did exactly that when they worked with the VPC to produce the CCW hit piece a few years ago. If you watch that one closely, you can see how they rigged it heavily in favor of the attackers (CCWers always positioned in the same place in center of the room in every scenario, attackers made pre-rehearsed movements to target the CCWers first in a room otherwise filled with possible targets, where in real-life they wouldn't know who was armed and who wasn't...they even avoided shooting at people who were directly in front of them so that they could focus their efforts on the CCWers).

This one will be the same.

[njineermike]

They did exactly that when they worked with the VPC to produce the CCW hit piece a few years ago. If you watch that one closely, you can see how they rigged it heavily in favor of the attackers (defenders always positioned in the same place in center of the room, attackers make pre-rehearsed movements to target the defenders first in a room otherwise filled with people). This one will be the same.

Don't forget making them wear conspicuous clothing that made drawing the weapon difficult and easily identifiable to the shooters, everyone else in the room was in on it, the second shooter knew exactly who the target was, and even though some of the targets managed to hit the shooter, it was considered a failure due to the target getting shot.

It was rigged from the start and this one is no different.

[SoCalGunny]

Just watched it on the DVR. Man, what a biased POS.

They just glanced over the big reduction of kids that DIDN'T touch the guns after SIMPLY seeing the NRA video.

What is it that the left says???? "If it saves one life its worth it".... Then why are they keeping firearm safety instruction out of schools?

[Johnny Rotten]

Did you do the same thing when they were learning to swim? Are you going to do the same thing again when he's teaching them to drive a car? Serious question.


They did exactly that when they worked with the VPC to produce the CCW hit piece a few years ago. If you watch that one closely, you can see how they rigged it heavily in favor of the attackers (CCWers always positioned in the same place in center of the room in every scenario, attackers made pre-rehearsed movements to target the CCWers first in a room otherwise filled with possible targets, where in real-life they wouldn't know who was armed and who wasn't...they even avoided shooting at people who were directly in front of them so that they could focus their efforts on the CCWers).

This one will be the same.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but I'll answer the best I can. I think what you're asking is if I had to butt in and preach pool safety to my brother- in law when his kids learned how to swim (correct me if I'm wrong). No I did not because I did not have to. He knows how to swim. His kids grew up with a pool and he and everybody knows to never leave children unsupervised when they're in a pool even if they know how to swim. Just like you shouldn't leave children unsupervised around guns just because they know how to handle them.

As far as gun safety goes it's a little bit different for him since he is brand new to guns. There are people out there who think teaching their kids how to handle guns safely goes far enough and they leave loaded guns laying around the house where children can access them. I do not want my brother in law to have that mindset. I want to show him this film because it documents how children react to a gun they found even though they were told not to touch guns by their parents, a police officer, other adults, and after they watched the NRA gun safety video for children. I asked him about getting a gun safe and he responded like he would get one eventually. He didn't even inquire about inexpensive cable or trigger locks so I know securing his firearm is not a high priority for him. I want him to understand how important it is and it needs to be carved in his brain. I am also going to advise him to take a gun safety course as well.

He is brand new to guns so I am trying to assist him and show him the ropes of gun safety as well as his kids. He has the experience to teach his kids to swim because he knows how to swim and he knows the pool safety rules. He can teach his kids to drive because he knows how to drive and he knows how to follow the rules of the road. With firearms he practically has no experience whatsoever.

This one was not at all the same. I thought they did a good job with this one and you would know if you bothered to watch. Others I can tell have made judgments about it without paying attention to it. I can tell because they called it bias and said they skewed it to get the results they wanted. They did not do this at all. The only thing I didn't like about this documentary is that it put people who teach children to shoot guns in a negative light. The tone they used when talking about them made it seem as if they were doing something bad. They made it seem really taboo. Other than that it was pretty good.

What they did was took a classroom full of children and taught them what to do if they found a gun. Some of the kids parents have already taught them at home not to play with guns. They had a police officer teach them not to play with guns. They had an adult teach them not to play with guns, I believe she was a child psychologist, and they also showed them the NRA gun safety video for children. After they drilled it in their heads that they are not to touch guns and to tell an adult if you find one, they planted guns in the classroom. They would leave 2-4 children in the classroom unsupervised for a few minutes and they documented how the children reacted when they found the guns in the classroom. I believe it was like half of the classroom that touched or played with the gun and the other half didn't and told the adult.

They were not being biased. They showed the children who played with the guns and they showed the children who didn't play with the guns. One kid actually wanted to make sure the gun was unloaded before he picked it up but to make sure it was unloaded he pulled the trigger a bunch of times as it layed on the desk and after he pulled the trigger he was like "good there are no bullets in it". So to him now it was "safe" for him to pick it up and play with it. Other kids pionted the gun at the other children in the room and some had their finger on the trigger as they looked down the barrel through the bore to examine the gun.

Anyways the whole point of the documentary was to show that teaching gun safety to kids does work for some but it doesn't work for all. There are many people who are commenting and blogging about this documentary saying things like, well I taught my kids this and that and they know not to do this or that. Well yeah it may be working for you and your children, at least for now, but it doesn't work for everybody. You may have gotten lucky but there are many others who thought just like you, who did the same things you did and were not so lucky. Why risk it why take that chance when it comes to your children? That was the point this documentary was making. It was not an anti-gun film and it was not biased. It showed the children who did the wrong things and the ones who did the right things.

[Johnny Rotten]

Yes, but showing someone this obviously biased and typical ABC hit piece would be like the equivalent of the 'scared straight' videos we watched in highschool about driving or smoking drugs. I don't seem to recall that working to well for my peers.

How about a little education instead of fear mongering and sensationalism? Don't we have to much of one and not enough of the other?

For me I feel this was educational. Did you watch it or do you have pre concieved notions about it because it's ABC? If you did watch it did you watch it with an open mind?

I feel this was educational and the study they did can be used to teach people about gun safety when children are in the home. Again many people seem to think that it's ok to leave guns around the house even if they think they're 'hidden" from their children. So what they did-and this is why I feel it is educational- was do a study to show that even though you may teach children to not touch or play with guns some will still do it. When their parents weren't around and when no adults were around, the children would play with the guns. children misbehaving behind their parents backs seems pretty obvious right? But unfortunately some parents seem to be oblivious to it. I mean have they ever caught their child with their hand in the cookie jar? have they ever caught their child lying about brushing their teeth? Do they trust their child to take a bath and go to bed early if they're left unsupervised? Yet for some reason they trust that a child wont play with a gun behind their back.I thought this film addressed this problem very well.

[bohoki]

i think the show was a good expose on the legal reasons for having an age of majority

kids are kind of like little drunk people

[m03]

I think what you're asking is if I had to butt in and preach pool safety to my brother- in law when his kids learned how to swim (correct me if I'm wrong). No I did not because I did not have to. He knows how to swim. His kids grew up with a pool and he and everybody knows to never leave children unsupervised when they're in a pool even if they know how to swim.

Anyways the whole point of the documentary was to show that teaching gun safety to kids does work for some but it doesn't work for all. There are many people who are commenting and blogging about this documentary saying things like, well I taught my kids this and that and they know not to do this or that. Well yeah it may be working for you and your children, at least for now, but it doesn't work for everybody.

That's a big "no ****, obviously" thing though. I'm awaiting ABC's follow up documentary about how teaching safe sex doesn't prevent all teens from getting STDs, how teaching all kids to drive doesn't prevent all kids from dying in car accidents, and teaching them to swim doesn't prevent all kids from drowning.

The documentary was a hit-piece. Nothing more. They have a long and storied history of using creative editing to tell the story that they want told. I implore you to do more research rather than just taking it at face value.

...and I'm not just saying that because you're a newly registered user who's burning though posts in this thread trying to defend the show and/or network.

[furyous68]

I think there are plenty of things we can agree with from this show:

1. Children (young children... Age 8 and under?) should never be left unsupervised with a firearm. Period.

2. If there are children & guns in the same house, then precautions should be taken to insure that those children will never get their hands on a loaded firearm outside the supervision of an adult.

3. It is up to us to constantly train our children how to safely handle a firearm, and what to do when they find one. I know I tell my 8 year old something, and 5 minutes later I have to repeat myself. The failure of what they did in the show was that the "training" was short & one-time. It takes a lot more instruction for our young ones to truly get it.

I saw the show for what it is, a thinly veiled "both sides of the story" that is twisted to the anti-gun agenda. But, I think we can use it in our favor to say: "look, we don't believe in children having unsupervised access to guns either", and that "CONSTANT training & communication is key to keeping our children safe".

Every accident portrayed in that piece was because a LOADED firearm was accessible to a child. The video of the toddler climbing the refrigerator while carrying a toy shows you that they will find a way to get to whatever it is that piques their curiosity.

[sl0re10]

But that is exactly the point. Those kids were instructed by an adult, their parents, and a police officer not to touch guns. They even watched the NRA video for kids. Yet some of them not only touched the guns but pointed them at themselves and other kids and they pulled the trigger. So the whole point is not to leave guns unsupervised around kids.

Yes it's a great idea to teach your kids about gun safety but that is not enough. Especially young kids 3,4,5 years old; you may drill it in their head that guns are dangerous but at that age their brains are just not that developed to fully understand what death is and how deadly guns are.

I know there are those who say well I taught my child this and my child knows this and my child doesn't do that. Well that is great but do you really want to leave it to chance? Yes there are some kids that do listen but there are some who don't. No child or person is perfect so do you really want to leave your child's life to chance? Children being disobedient isn't a rare thing.

Think of all the accidents that happen when adults handle firearms. I saw in the news that a man got shot during a gun safety course. He was accidentally shot by the instructor of all people. Adults accidentally shoot themselves or shoot their children and children accidentally shoot themselves and shoot other children. This is a real thing that happens when people are not careful with firearms or when they leave loaded firearms where children can access them. This is not a myth, it really happens. If firearm accidents happen with adults what makes people think it won't happen with children.



If any of you have children of your own or children in the house; would you trust them to eat right, bath, brush their teeth, go to bed early, wake up early, etc, on their own without you saying anything? (Yes I know there are really great kids out their who are mature beyond their years and my niece is one that comes to mind, but I'm sure a majority of parents/guardians would not trust their kids to do that stuff on their own.) So why would you trust them to not play with a gun they found that they think is really cool and fun?

Not too long ago I bought my brother in-law his first rifle a Saiga Ak-47. He used to always talk about wanting to get a firearm but now that he has one he is really into the sport and already is looking at more firearms. I am going to show him this documentary because I wan't him to understand how important gun safety is and how important it is to keep them locked up because he has a 10 year old and a 12 year old. We have both told his kids not to touch or play with guns. I showed them how to handle them, how to check them to make sure they're clear, how not to point them at anyone, and all the gun safety rules. They are currently practicing safe handling and shooting with an airsoft gun. Today I will be giving them one of my old BB guns that I grew up with. I'm giving them a BB gun so they have something to practice with that is a step up from air soft guns so they can gain a healthy respect for guns that are capable of hurting people. Soon enough they will be at the range with me and they dad. But does that mean we're going to leave loaded firearms laying around the house? Absolutely not. That is dangerous, irresponsible, and just outright stupid. When it comes to gun safety you can never be too careful especially around children.

Now before people start jumping down my throat accusing me of being a socialist liberal commie who's promoting "Lame-stream media" propaganda just understand that yes I am liberal/left-wing (not to be confused with neo-liberalism/neo-liberal Democrats) I have been around firearms as a child. I started out with BB guns and started shooting real firearms as a teenager. I owned my first firearms, a rifle and a shotgun, when I was 16 and have been into it ever since and I never plan to stop.

Well that was my little rant for the day.

and reefer madness was really about the safe use of drugs.

[GOLDEN GUN]

i think the show was a good expose on the legal reasons for having an age of majority

kids are kind of like little drunk people

Lol little drunk people is right!

I watched this last night and it made me realize how negligent I was with regard to firearm storage. I have a fingerprint lock to the room I store my guns, I have locks on every one of guns except for my night stand gun which I keep loaded, unchambered, with the safety on.. Which kid could find my gun in the nightstand, flip the safety, rack the slide of a .45 1911, and then pull the trigger right?

Well any parent knows kids can surprise you about how much they know sometimes. While cleaning my guns on the breakfast table and around the kid, Iv taught him basic rules.. A gun is always loaded and dangerous, never ever put your finger on the trigger or he will die nd all of his dogs will die too (too emphasize the consequence lol) and if he sees one to never touch it... Well to my surprise, while I was cleaning my new sw .357 magnum, he asked if it was a real gun and while being excited to aim at him and pretend to shoot him with it (holy sh*t!!). Mind you I have let him hold an unloaded gun before to kill the curiosity. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been watching me handle the guns after cleaning and knows how to effectively chamber and fire a round..

Well none the less after seeing this show, I am ditching the individual locks, a safe has been installed and the nightstNd gun is only out at night...

I should've had a safe log time ago for the theft issue but the show made me realize that's not the only reason for tKing the extra precautions. I think if someone has never taken a handgun safety course, they should never be unsupervised around a handgun regardless of age

[SanPedroShooter]

For me I feel this was educational. Did you watch it or do you have pre concieved notions about it because it's ABC? If you did watch it did you watch it with an open mind?

I feel this was educational and the study they did can be used to teach people about gun safety when children are in the home. Again many people seem to think that it's ok to leave guns around the house even if they think they're 'hidden" from their children. So what they did-and this is why I feel it is educational- was do a study to show that even though you may teach children to not touch or play with guns some will still do it. When their parents weren't around and when no adults were around, the children would play with the guns. children misbehaving behind their parents backs seems pretty obvious right? But unfortunately some parents seem to be oblivious to it. I mean have they ever caught their child with their hand in the cookie jar? have they ever caught their child lying about brushing their teeth? Do they trust their child to take a bath and go to bed early if they're left unsupervised? Yet for some reason they trust that a child wont play with a gun behind their back.I thought this film addressed this problem very well.

No I didn't watch it. I don't have a TV so you got me there. I have a long memory and I don't forgive easily (like a lot of people that have been doing this awhile you might find)


I think you will find that the vanishingly small number of incredibly reckless people with guns will continue to be so and we will see this 'special' thrown in our faces for the next decade or so.

If it causes some people to take firearm storage and children more seriously, then good enough.

[Noble Cause]

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but I'll answer the best I can. I think what you're asking is if I had to butt in and preach pool safety to my brother- in law when his kids learned how to swim (correct me if I'm wrong). No I did not because I did not have to. He knows how to swim. His kids grew up with a pool and he and everybody knows to never leave children unsupervised when they're in a pool even if they know how to swim. Just like you shouldn't leave children unsupervised around guns just because they know how to handle them.

As far as gun safety goes it's a little bit different for him since he is brand new to guns. There are people out there who think teaching their kids how to handle guns safely goes far enough and they leave loaded guns laying around the house where children can access them. I do not want my brother in law to have that mindset. I want to show him this film because it documents how children react to a gun they found even though they were told not to touch guns by their parents, a police officer, other adults, and after they watched the NRA gun safety video for children. I asked him about getting a gun safe and he responded like he would get one eventually. He didn't even inquire about inexpensive cable or trigger locks so I know securing his firearm is not a high priority for him. I want him to understand how important it is and it needs to be carved in his brain. I am also going to advise him to take a gun safety course as well.

He is brand new to guns so I am trying to assist him and show him the ropes of gun safety as well as his kids. He has the experience to teach his kids to swim because he knows how to swim and he knows the pool safety rules. He can teach his kids to drive because he knows how to drive and he knows how to follow the rules of the road. With firearms he practically has no experience whatsoever.

This one was not at all the same. I thought they did a good job with this one and you would know if you bothered to watch. Others I can tell have made judgments about it without paying attention to it. I can tell because they called it bias and said they skewed it to get the results they wanted. They did not do this at all. The only thing I didn't like about this documentary is that it put people who teach children to shoot guns in a negative light. The tone they used when talking about them made it seem as if they were doing something bad. They made it seem really taboo. Other than that it was pretty good.

What they did was took a classroom full of children and taught them what to do if they found a gun. Some of the kids parents have already taught them at home not to play with guns. They had a police officer teach them not to play with guns. They had an adult teach them not to play with guns, I believe she was a child psychologist, and they also showed them the NRA gun safety video for children. After they drilled it in their heads that they are not to touch guns and to tell an adult if you find one, they planted guns in the classroom. They would leave 2-4 children in the classroom unsupervised for a few minutes and they documented how the children reacted when they found the guns in the classroom. I believe it was like half of the classroom that touched or played with the gun and the other half didn't and told the adult.

They were not being biased. They showed the children who played with the guns and they showed the children who didn't play with the guns. One kid actually wanted to make sure the gun was unloaded before he picked it up but to make sure it was unloaded he pulled the trigger a bunch of times as it layed on the desk and after he pulled the trigger he was like "good there are no bullets in it". So to him now it was "safe" for him to pick it up and play with it. Other kids pionted the gun at the other children in the room and some had their finger on the trigger as they looked down the barrel through the bore to examine the gun.

Anyways the whole point of the documentary was to show that teaching gun safety to kids does work for some but it doesn't work for all. There are many people who are commenting and blogging about this documentary saying things like, well I taught my kids this and that and they know not to do this or that. Well yeah it may be working for you and your children, at least for now, but it doesn't work for everybody. You may have gotten lucky but there are many others who thought just like you, who did the same things you did and were not so lucky. Why risk it why take that chance when it comes to your children? That was the point this documentary was making. It was not an anti-gun film and it was not biased. It showed the children who did the wrong things and the ones who did the right things.

Low post count person defending an obvious ABC anti gun hit piece.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you mean well,
and did not fully realize the audience is being manipulated.

If you wish to read about their dishonesty, here is an article explaining it:

THEBLAZE FACT-CHECKS ABC:
DID DIANE SAWYER USE MISLEADING STATS IN ’20/20’
REPORT ON CHILDREN AND GUNS?
Jan. 31, 2014 11:34pm Jason Howerton

Further, the network uses “kids and teens under age 20″ to calculate the number of “children” hospitalized from firearms injuries. ABC’s data source is based on a study done by Yale School of Medicine researchers rather than the CDC — and the numbers only include 2009. Some might also argue that people as old as 18 and 19-years-old aren’t children or kids. The report says 7,391 people under the age of 20 were hospitalized from gun-related injuries.

In fact, pools, cars and poison are “exponentially more dangerous” and result in the deaths of thousands of children each year, the data shows. In 2010 alone, 602 children died from drowning, 262 died in fires and 923 died in car accidents.

“These are real epidemics,” Loesch concluded. “When is [Diane Sawyer] going to host a special on that?”

Link...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/31/theblaze-fact-checks-abc-did-diane-sawyer-use-misleading-stats-in-2020-report-on-children-and-guns/

Enjoy the truth.

Noble