...

[Dave A]

Some of the posts on this thread are interesting to say the least. A range has rules (allegedly) and someone doesn't like them. So, they post on how they didn't like the RO, or how they will defy the RO to enforce the rules, or how they will never go back again. Guess what, for the most part the RO, the club and the members present will applaud your leaving.

I belong to a private rifle club that allows the public to shoot when other events do not conflict. They own the land and are responsible for anything that happens there, or on surrounding properties. Yes, they have rules, usually as suggested by the NRA, and additionally because of near misses that have occurred over the years. You can walk along the firing line and observe all the orange spray painted spots caused by AD's. The are through the roof, the gutters, the support posts, the concrete benches and other places I will not mention. Once that bullet leaves the barrel, it is going to hit something and we all know that fact.

One of the strictest rules is about not handling firearms during a cease fire and there is a very good reason for that. If you spend much time at a range and get to know the RO's and see what goes on, you quickly understand that some people should not own guns. One of the latest examples was a couple that showed up and immediately started breaking major rules, like trying to post a target while the range was live. After the second confrontation with the RO on duty about handling a pistol during a cease fire, they were asked if they had just read the rules as new shooter at the range. The response was yes, but you did not explain them to me. RO issued a refund and asked them to please leave.

No doubt they have harsh things to say about the range, but maybe being an adult is beyond them and everyone is still walking about and uninjured. RO's do get a bit overzealous at times, but before you are too harsh observe what goes on and put yourself in their shoes as being responsible for everyone's safety while they are working the line.

[Ford8N]

Hmmm... I forgot about this thread.

My experience wasn't with an AR.

One of the teenagers that worked there had a fit when I was pointing out the Konovalov sight on one of my M91's in the rack during the cease-fire, since me and the man I was talking to couldn't hear to speak during the live shooting when we could pick up the guns.


Now mind all of you, I know the cease-fire is not the safe time for picking up guns. Duh.


All I was doing was pointing out the sight and then the splicing on the stock, which is typical of Finnish capture rifles, to a man that was asking about it. As I said we couldn't really have a conversation with everyone shooting.


Then the little turd walked up and started giving me this caustic little lecture on the rules. Well, my friends had already packed up were waiting for me at our vehicle.

I knew I had to leave and with our conversation interrupted the other gentleman left. I started getting my cases to put my guns away and the kid got a little snotty and said I could not leave with my weapons until the cease-fire was over, so I had to wait for 25 minutes for everyone to get their targets ready and the new arrivals to set up their firearms (apparently they can touch their guns) and targets. All the while I stood there with this kid hovering over me like a vulture.

Really?

I never went back.

Yea, they have that do not touch weapons during cease fire rule for years. They will warn you a cease fire is coming up, so that's when you should pack up. Years ago, we were asked to leave one time during the Thursday night shoot because we were making sparks off the steel plates on a cold, wet, foggy evening...by the "President" of the club I will say the RO was a cool kid on that night.

[Merc1138]

Some of the posts on this thread are interesting to say the least. A range has rules (allegedly) and someone doesn't like them. So, they post on how they didn't like the RO, or how they will defy the RO to enforce the rules, or how they will never go back again. Guess what, for the most part the RO, the club and the members present will applaud your leaving.

I belong to a private rifle club that allows the public to shoot when other events do not conflict. They own the land and are responsible for anything that happens there, or on surrounding properties. Yes, they have rules, usually as suggested by the NRA, and additionally because of near misses that have occurred over the years. You can walk along the firing line and observe all the orange spray painted spots caused by AD's. The are through the roof, the gutters, the support posts, the concrete benches and other places I will not mention. Once that bullet leaves the barrel, it is going to hit something and we all know that fact.

One of the strictest rules is about not handling firearms during a cease fire and there is a very good reason for that. If you spend much time at a range and get to know the RO's and see what goes on, you quickly understand that some people should not own guns. One of the latest examples was a couple that showed up and immediately started breaking major rules, like trying to post a target while the range was live. After the second confrontation with the RO on duty about handling a pistol during a cease fire, they were asked if they had just read the rules as new shooter at the range. The response was yes, but you did not explain them to me. RO issued a refund and asked them to please leave.

No doubt they have harsh things to say about the range, but maybe being an adult is beyond them and everyone is still walking about and uninjured. RO's do get a bit overzealous at times, but before you are too harsh observe what goes on and put yourself in their shoes as being responsible for everyone's safety while they are working the line.

Apparently you didn't actually read the thread. The OP was discussing an idiot RO complaining about removing the magazine from a bullet buttoned AR. That's not a safety issue. People have been trying to figure out which range the idiot RO was at, since apparently none of the ranges in the area have such a stupid rule.

Other people brought up the "no humanoid targets" rule that some ranges have, also stupid and has nothing to do with safety.

Another rule from some ranges mentioned by myself and another poster is the "you can't leave the range with your stuff that's already in cases and wasn't on the shooting benches during a ceasefire" which again, has absolutely nothing to do with safety.

The issues that people have brought up, are the equivalent of a range deciding you can't wear button down shirts, only pull-over type shirts to the range. It's idiotic and has nothing to do with safety.

[umd]

Another rule from some ranges mentioned by myself and another poster is the "you can't leave the range with your stuff that's already in cases and wasn't on the shooting benches during a ceasefire" which again, has absolutely nothing to do with safety.

That poster said "I started getting my cases to put my guns away" which means that they were NOT in the cases.

[Merc1138]

That poster said "I started getting my cases to put my guns away" which means that they were NOT in the cases.

You're right, it's even more idiotic for the kid to have complained about him simply getting the cases. BTW, looks like you missed something else in that post:

so I had to wait for 25 minutes for everyone to get their targets ready and the new arrivals to set up their firearms (apparently they can touch their guns)

[SLO1911Fan]

Hmmm... I forgot about this thread.

My experience wasn't with an AR.

One of the teenagers that worked there had a fit when I was pointing out the Konovalov sight on one of my M91's in the rack during the cease-fire, since me and the man I was talking to couldn't hear to speak during the live shooting when we could pick up the guns.


Now mind all of you, I know the cease-fire is not the safe time for picking up guns. Duh.


All I was doing was pointing out the sight and then the splicing on the stock, which is typical of Finnish capture rifles, to a man that was asking about it. As I said we couldn't really have a conversation with everyone shooting.


Then the little turd walked up and started giving me this caustic little lecture on the rules. Well, my friends had already packed up were waiting for me at our vehicle.

I knew I had to leave and with our conversation interrupted the other gentleman left. I started getting my cases to put my guns away and the kid got a little snotty and said I could not leave with my weapons until the cease-fire was over, so I had to wait for 25 minutes for everyone to get their targets ready and the new arrivals to set up their firearms (apparently they can touch their guns) and targets. All the while I stood there with this kid hovering over me like a vulture.

Really?

I never went back.

I'm sure the RO could have been nicer. But having worked there, having seen the stupid that is alive and well in some members of the shooting community, and having been downrange when some moron decided to take a shot during a cease fire, I agree with the RO.

The rules are very specific and very clear about handling guns during a cease fire. They are clearly explained, and when you pay your money and sign the waiver you agree to follow them. It's the RO's job to make sure that you do and that you don't endanger other shooters. It sounds to me like he did his job, and you didn't like being lectured. And for the record, you were probably lucky it was the kid. A couple of the older guys would have thrown you out the door.

[Paperchasin]

This happened to me at burro canyon. I got my guns all packed up and everything locked up inside my range bag. Range bag placed on the tabletop and waited for the line break and all clear, went down range to grab my target stands. After breaking down my stands and putting them in my car, went to grab my range bag and got chewed out via megaphone. He walked up to me, saw that everything was packed up, and still made me wait until the line was "hot" again.

At this time, my eye protection was already put away and as soon as the line went cold, I threw away my disposable ear plugs. So instead of letting grab my range bag and leave, I was forced to wait and bear the loudness without my ear protection. I have not been back to burro canyon ever since and did not renew my annual membership.

[Dave A]

Merc1138 said in response to my post:

"Apparently you didn't actually read the thread. The OP was discussing an idiot RO complaining about removing the magazine from a bullet buttoned AR. That's not a safety issue. People have been trying to figure out which range the idiot RO was at, since apparently none of the ranges in the area have such a stupid rule."

I read every single word of the thread and my comments had nothing to do with the original post and much to do with some of the other responses, which I thought was pretty clear. Sorry you did not understand that.

"Other people brought up the "no humanoid targets" rule that some ranges have, also stupid and has nothing to do with safety."

Its a rule - A private range can have whatever rules they want whether you like them or not. Don't go there if you don't like the range rules. I could point out that the Lincoln range fronts on a highway. It goes without saying that there are a lot of people in this state who do not like firearms and the legislature and the myriad of laws they pass demonstrates that fact. The Lincoln range has been there since 1929 as I recall and they do strive to maintain a good public image. They will not be there forever since the city of Lincoln has expressed interest in adding that land into the city. Translation, when the economy improves another site will be needed.

"Another rule from some ranges mentioned by myself and another poster is the "you can't leave the range with your stuff that's already in cases and wasn't on the shooting benches during a ceasefire" which again, has absolutely nothing to do with safety."

It is a hard and fast rule at most ranges that you simply do not handle firearms during a cease fire. Period, end of discussion. Most RO's will allow you to take cased firearms to your vehicle if you ask nicely. For the most part they are not there to harass you, sometimes it just seems that way.

"The issues that people have brought up, are the equivalent of a range deciding you can't wear button down shirts, only pull-over type shirts to the range. It's idiotic and has nothing to do with safety."

Your problem is that you have an idea of how you think a range should be run. Obviously you are not going to agree with me, or other posters who have disagreed with you. Why not apply for an RO position at a club and then you will begin to see why they have the rules they do. After you have dealt with the average shooter for a while, you may look at things differently.

[Milsurps]

so I had to wait for 25 minutes for everyone to get their targets ready and the new arrivals to set up their firearms...

Really?

I never went back.

25 Mins ?.. I call total BS. No SLOSA line breaks ever take 25 Mins.

"I never went back"...
Good. Glad I won't ever see you there.

[Merc1138]

Merc1138 said in response to my post:

"Apparently you didn't actually read the thread. The OP was discussing an idiot RO complaining about removing the magazine from a bullet buttoned AR. That's not a safety issue. People have been trying to figure out which range the idiot RO was at, since apparently none of the ranges in the area have such a stupid rule."

I read every single word of the thread and my comments had nothing to do with the original post and much to do with some of the other responses, which I thought was pretty clear. Sorry you did not understand that.

"Other people brought up the "no humanoid targets" rule that some ranges have, also stupid and has nothing to do with safety."

Its a rule - A private range can have whatever rules they want whether you like them or not. Don't go there if you don't like the range rules. I could point out that the Lincoln range fronts on a highway. It goes without saying that there are a lot of people in this state who do not like firearms and the legislature and the myriad of laws they pass demonstrates that fact. The Lincoln range has been there since 1929 as I recall and they do strive to maintain a good public image. They will not be there forever since the city of Lincoln has expressed interest in adding that land into the city. Translation, when the economy improves another site will be needed.

"Another rule from some ranges mentioned by myself and another poster is the "you can't leave the range with your stuff that's already in cases and wasn't on the shooting benches during a ceasefire" which again, has absolutely nothing to do with safety."

It is a hard and fast rule at most ranges that you simply do not handle firearms during a cease fire. Period, end of discussion. Most RO's will allow you to take cased firearms to your vehicle if you ask nicely. For the most part they are not there to harass you, sometimes it just seems that way.

"The issues that people have brought up, are the equivalent of a range deciding you can't wear button down shirts, only pull-over type shirts to the range. It's idiotic and has nothing to do with safety."

Your problem is that you have an idea of how you think a range should be run. Obviously you are not going to agree with me, or other posters who have disagreed with you. Why not apply for an RO position at a club and then you will begin to see why they have the rules they do. After you have dealt with the average shooter for a while, you may look at things differently.

You're right, if a range doesn't allow posting humanoid targets, I simply don't have to go there. I'm not saying otherwise. But trying to claim it's a safety issue is idiotic. It also has nothing to do with private ranges, since there are public ranges that have this same rule.

Also, your comment about my complaint regarding leaving the range with an already cased firearm during a ceasefire fails on so many levels it's unbelievable. I specified a range that has such a rule, it has NOTHING to do with safety. Telling me I can't leave the range with an already cased firearm during a ceasefire, is the same as telling me I can't show up to a range with an already cased firearm during a ceasefire. In either instance(leaving, or arriving) that I have mentioned, there is no handling of uncased firearms occurring. There is no safety issue and I can think of more ranges that do not have such a rule, than ranges that do.

Simple fact is, that if I'm somewhere(doesn't matter if it's a range or otherwise) and you think you have some authority to prevent me from leaving(when you clearly don't), I'm going to go through you if necessary. The same would apply to attempting to prevent me from leaving a movie theater before the movie has ended. It's not a safety issue, it's bull****.

Paperchasin didn't indicate whether or not the tables he had set his gear on were the actual shooting benches, or tables behind the shooting area. If it was a matter of trying to grab crap off of the benches during a ceasefire when not allowed, fine. If they weren't on the shooting tables(Chabot comes to mind, they have separate tables behind the shooting area to set bags and stuff), in that situation I'd have told the RO to try and stop me.

[umd]

You're right, it's even more idiotic for the kid to have complained about him simply getting the cases. BTW, looks like you missed something else in that post:

I saw that, but chose not to confound multiple issues.

I've been to that range many times and never had a cease fire last longer that 10 minutes, most less than 5. No issues getting or going to my bags during cease fire, loading mags, etc. His bag may have been over by the benches which would mean he would have to cross the line. Maybe he wasn't trying to cross the line and it was just an idiot RSO but there is no range policy against simply touching or getting your cases/bags there.

[Alpha Male]

I couldn't agree with you more. My favorite range is at SLOSA which does not allow anyone past the fire line or handling of any firearms during a cease fire for any reason. One of the reasons is because some new people will see the behavior and make reasons to handle other things. By the time you know it, they are moving a firearm because they forgot to grab their targets laying near their firearm just as an example. It keeps everything simple and what not. In my honest opinion, put your stuff on the back wall in the bags right after you are done and you won't have a problem retrieving your stuff after your targets.

I remember forgetting to grab my brass bag and asking politely if he could hand it to me to grab all the brass that flew forward and to clean up my steel casings out of courtesy.

Merc1138 said in response to my post:

"Apparently you didn't actually read the thread. The OP was discussing an idiot RO complaining about removing the magazine from a bullet buttoned AR. That's not a safety issue. People have been trying to figure out which range the idiot RO was at, since apparently none of the ranges in the area have such a stupid rule."

I read every single word of the thread and my comments had nothing to do with the original post and much to do with some of the other responses, which I thought was pretty clear. Sorry you did not understand that.

"Other people brought up the "no humanoid targets" rule that some ranges have, also stupid and has nothing to do with safety."

Its a rule - A private range can have whatever rules they want whether you like them or not. Don't go there if you don't like the range rules. I could point out that the Lincoln range fronts on a highway. It goes without saying that there are a lot of people in this state who do not like firearms and the legislature and the myriad of laws they pass demonstrates that fact. The Lincoln range has been there since 1929 as I recall and they do strive to maintain a good public image. They will not be there forever since the city of Lincoln has expressed interest in adding that land into the city. Translation, when the economy improves another site will be needed.

"Another rule from some ranges mentioned by myself and another poster is the "you can't leave the range with your stuff that's already in cases and wasn't on the shooting benches during a ceasefire" which again, has absolutely nothing to do with safety."

It is a hard and fast rule at most ranges that you simply do not handle firearms during a cease fire. Period, end of discussion. Most RO's will allow you to take cased firearms to your vehicle if you ask nicely. For the most part they are not there to harass you, sometimes it just seems that way.

"The issues that people have brought up, are the equivalent of a range deciding you can't wear button down shirts, only pull-over type shirts to the range. It's idiotic and has nothing to do with safety."

Your problem is that you have an idea of how you think a range should be run. Obviously you are not going to agree with me, or other posters who have disagreed with you. Why not apply for an RO position at a club and then you will begin to see why they have the rules they do. After you have dealt with the average shooter for a while, you may look at things differently.

[Dave A]

Merc 1138,

Sorry, there are documented instances of "unloaded firearms" in cases that went bang and sent a bullet in a wrong direction. That is why the rule is hard and fast in most places. The rule is an example of the KISS principle, easily followed and no exceptions. Does it make the range safer? Probably, but nothing is absolute.

I really don't mean to come across as argumentative. Discussion of range rules is always a good topic.

[Emdawg]

That poster said "I started getting my cases to put my guns away" which means that they were NOT in the cases.

I take that back. The only gun not in a case was the M91 that I was discussing.

I'm sure the RO could have been nicer. But having worked there, having seen the stupid that is alive and well in some members of the shooting community, and having been downrange when some moron decided to take a shot during a cease fire, I agree with the RO.

The rules are very specific and very clear about handling guns during a cease fire. They are clearly explained, and when you pay your money and sign the waiver you agree to follow them. It's the RO's job to make sure that you do and that you don't endanger other shooters. It sounds to me like he did his job, and you didn't like being lectured. And for the record, you were probably lucky it was the kid. A couple of the older guys would have thrown you out the door.

The older gentleman that was the range master was nice fellow. His two teenage minions were dweebs.


Also, the Mosin Nagant was not in my hands, it was on the rack. I did touch it, but it never left its location.

25 Mins ?.. I call total BS. No SLOSA line breaks ever take 25 Mins.

"I never went back"...
Good. Glad I won't ever see you there.

It was 25 minutes, because the range master had to go over the rules with about six new arrivals and everyone was taking their sweet time setting their targets.


Well, it seems to me that you are a range toady. One of those that knows the people that run the place or are a regular and you can get away with things poor old Emdawg wouldn't and goads the RO's to shoo off undesirables. Well, you can just keep that range, I don't care.

[Merc1138]

Merc 1138,

Sorry, there are documented instances of "unloaded firearms" in cases that went bang and sent a bullet in a wrong direction. That is why the rule is hard and fast in most places. The rule is an example of the KISS principle, easily followed and no exceptions. Does it make the range safer? Probably, but nothing is absolute.

I really don't mean to come across as argumentative. Discussion of range rules is always a good topic.

So again... why is it not an issue to handle cases with firearms when arriving to a range, and only while leaving certain ranges with the idiotic rule in place? Why don't all ranges have such a rule if it's such a safety concern? Sure, there can be loaded firearms in cases. I've seen plenty of stories(and a couple incidents in person) of firearms pulled out of cases that turn out to be loaded. What direction do you point your cased firearms while driving to the range? You think the body of your vehicle is going to stop a round from exiting while you're driving there? I haven't seen a rash of incidents involving cased firearms just "going off" while people are driving to the range(haven't heard of a single incident of this either).

Most range rules that you find commonly enforced at most ranges, I agree with. Not being able to leave with an already cased firearm during a ceasefire that doesn't require doing anything near the shooting positions, I do not. Same with ranges(like chabot) with an idiotic rule regarding how many rounds you can have in an SKS mag. Safety is one thing(Yes, I know the BS story about the SKS slam fire at chabot), making up useless crap is another.