California cops shoot kid with toy gun aka Replica Assault Weapon

[omgwtfbbq]

That's sad if you cannot adapt your perspective based on discussion with others.

I certainly hope this is the rhetorical use of the word "you" and not an assumption about me personally.

What I was stating, and what is blatantly apparent to any one reading this thread is that neither side of the argument is going to be swayed by the statements of the other. This is true in most cases of debate or even when dealing with someone who is ambivalent about a particular subject. If you make a statement, regardless of whether or not the other person completely disagrees with it, they will argue the opposing opinion, and the more evidence proposed to the contrary, the more fervently the individual will defend the position.

[Artema]

I certainly hope this is the rhetorical use of the word "you" and not an assumption about me personally.

Oh yes, it was the general use of you, not an insult to you in particular.

[empty the mag]

The gun was missing the identifying tip of a toy. The officer was backed into a corner to make a split second decision. It's sad and we have a dead boy but it can only come out one way, justified. But as citizens do we want this officer to continue being an officer? This will be the question gone over and over.

[oddjob]

Wait till this gets popular. A friend of mine did the interior weld job for a Federal agency for training purposes. He didn't do this gun, but another. Its easier for a crook to just steal one, but if someone mass produces the interior....watch out!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmcjFbColD4

Final product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsfH8K9EgWs

Here is an AR receiver made from a blue cutting board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DUmwZ_Sd2s

[SactoDoug]

I think there are a number of reasons why this is such a hot and controversial topic. Any boy that grew up prior to the 90's likely had a toy gun. I played a number of games with my friends such as cop and robbers, cowboys and indians, and army. We would run around the neighborhood with our toy guns "shooting" each other. Usually the only fallout from such games were arguments over who shot who first. No one called the police and no one got killed. We had guns that looked just like slightly smaller versions of the real thing. Some of us had cap guns too which not only looked like a real gun, but sounds like one to the unaccustomed ear.

Fast forward to today, and I just have to scratch my head at this story. It is inconceivable that police from my childhood would have shot and killed a kid in daylight that had a realistic looking gun. Something has changed in either common sense or law enforcement training.

[12voltguy]

I think there are a number of reasons why this is such a hot and controversial topic. Any boy that grew up prior to the 90's likely had a toy gun. I played a number of games with my friends such as cop and robbers, cowboys and indians, and army. We would run around the neighborhood with our toy guns "shooting" each other. Usually the only fallout from such games were arguments over who shot who first. No one called the police and no one got killed. We had guns that looked just like slightly smaller versions of the real thing. Some of us had cap guns too which not only looked like a real gun, but sounds like one to the unaccustomed ear.

Fast forward to today, and I just have to scratch my head at this story. It is inconceivable that police from my childhood would have shot and killed a kid in daylight that had a realistic looking gun. Something has changed in either common sense or law enforcement training.

That is best reply yet.

I am 48
so I was 10 in 1975
I just don't see this happing in 1975,WHERE I LIVE.
north of SAC 80 miles,very rule area,CCWs are givin out like candy,I don't think people are afraid of GUNS or people........like in the citys.

right or wrong?

I don't know.but some from both sides here go crazy defending both sides as if there own life was at stake,.......interweb

[4Defense]

Because in 1975, kids do not go around murdering their parents, killings their classmates, teachers, beating up the elderly, or robbing people in broad daylight.

Times have changed thanks to all the wonderful parents. Pledge of alligiance is out, god is out, no discipline in school. All parents think they all the best. That a bunch of hogwash.

I wonder what the result of that would be. Surprised!

Change, adapt , and deal swiftly with these little critters.

[Artema]

Because in 1975, kids do not go around murdering their parents, killings their classmates, teachers, beating up the elderly, or robbing people in broad daylight.

That's just one of those fantasies people have where in the past everything was perfect. Just false.

[oddjob]

1977....but close enough...Matt Opdahl killed his sisters and father.....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19770105&id=tWYzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3949,244870

It happened then....happens today .....and will happen tomorrow....it will never stop

I looked at the photos of the the two rifles (press photo). I knew one was going to be the Air Soft/toy. Saw the photo for about a half second (reaction time) and looked away. I couldn't tell which was real.

[APV]

I think there are a number of reasons why this is such a hot and controversial topic. Any boy that grew up prior to the 90's likely had a toy gun. I played a number of games with my friends such as cop and robbers, cowboys and indians, and army. We would run around the neighborhood with our toy guns "shooting" each other. Usually the only fallout from such games were arguments over who shot who first. No one called the police and no one got killed. We had guns that looked just like slightly smaller versions of the real thing. Some of us had cap guns too which not only looked like a real gun, but sounds like one to the unaccustomed ear.

Fast forward to today, and I just have to scratch my head at this story. It is inconceivable that police from my childhood would have shot and killed a kid in daylight that had a realistic looking gun. Something has changed in either common sense or law enforcement training.

same for me. When I was a kid we were playing with toy guns everywhere in the neighborhood and it was considered normal for kids to play soldiers, cowboys and indians, etc. The area was urban with high crime rate, but just nobody considered a kid with a toy gun as a thread.

[APV]

1977....but close enough...Matt Opdahl killed his sisters and father.....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19770105&id=tWYzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3949,244870

It happened then....happens today .....and will happen tomorrow....it will never stop

I looked at the photos of the the two rifles (press photo). I knew one was going to be the Air Soft/toy. Saw the photo for about a half second (reaction time) and looked away. I couldn't tell which was real.

Bad things were always happening sometime somewhere to unlucky ones as long as human being exist. Just before internet became accessible 24/7 the news were not spreading with a speed of light across the country in particular and the globe in general. As for the picture of rifles, the AK with a missing barrel cannot be real. It can happen to plastic only.

[Artema]

Bad things were always happening sometime somewhere to unlucky ones as long as human being exist. Just before internet became accessible 24/7 the news were not spreading with a speed of light across the country in particular and the globe in general.

Exactly. The problem we have now is people hear about these things and think the danger is lurking around every corner, rather than being prepared for it to occur at any time. There is a difference in mentality.

[empty the mag]

That's just one of those fantasies people have where in the past everything was perfect. Just false.

Of course these things happened in the past. But not with the frequency and general brutality as we see today. Religion has been vilified and the pledge has all been thrown out. Parents are not allowed to keep their kids inline for fear of threat from CPS. The world is a different place today. In the old days a juvenile delinquent(how long has it been since you heard that phrase?)had to deal with school vice principle and neighbors and parents. Today kids run the show and grow up spoiled brats. Some are so self centered they think the world is theirs to destroy if they choose. Morals have all been flushed down the toilet. Kids who are brought up learning about respect, god and morals generally become good productive citizens. So yes everything has to do with everything.

[Artema]

Of course these things happened in the past. But not with the frequency and general brutality as we see today. Religion has been vilified and the pledge has all been thrown out. Parents are not allowed to keep their kids inline for fear of threat from CPS. The world is a different place today. In the old days a juvenile delinquent(how long has it been since you heard that phrase?)had to deal with school vice principle and neighbors and parents. Today kids run the show and grow up spoiled brats. Some are so self centered they think the world is theirs to destroy if they choose. Morals have all been flushed down the toilet. Kids who are brought up learning about respect, god and morals generally become good productive citizens. So yes everything has to do with everything.

That reminds me of something, I found the quote.

[ruchik]

I think there are a number of reasons why this is such a hot and controversial topic. Any boy that grew up prior to the 90's likely had a toy gun. I played a number of games with my friends such as cop and robbers, cowboys and indians, and army. We would run around the neighborhood with our toy guns "shooting" each other. Usually the only fallout from such games were arguments over who shot who first. No one called the police and no one got killed. We had guns that looked just like slightly smaller versions of the real thing. Some of us had cap guns too which not only looked like a real gun, but sounds like one to the unaccustomed ear.

Fast forward to today, and I just have to scratch my head at this story. It is inconceivable that police from my childhood would have shot and killed a kid in daylight that had a realistic looking gun. Something has changed in either common sense or law enforcement training.

Agreed. I used to be able to run around with such toys and no one would bat an eye. Hell, I could even bring them to school for video assignments, as long as we notified the teacher beforehand, and showed it to him/her as well.

Unfortunately, the simple fact of the matter is, within the last decade or so there have been a number of shootings involving kids as the perpetrators, like Columbine. The police simply cannot assume anymore that kids are just being kids. Nowadays, you just never know. The key piece of information here that's missing is if the kid actually brought up the replica and pointed it at an officer. Or if it looked like the kid was going for cover. Without knowing all the details, we can't cast judgment because we weren't there.

The number one rule of firearms safety is always assume a gun is loaded. Well, if it looks real, best assume for your own safety it IS real. On that point, the officers made the right call. How they dealt with the situation, that's another story dependent on some conspicuously and suspiciously missing information from the news outlets.