California cops shoot kid with toy gun aka Replica Assault Weapon

[infringed711]

Two independent witnesses told him to get rid of the AK; the second one told him the sheriff was driving up.

Then, as the patrol car pulled up, the driver blipped the siren and activated the overhead red/blue lights, finally, independent witnesses say that either one or both deputies shouted two commands to drop the gun.

The deceased did not have his hoodie up, was not wearing earbuds, was not deaf, did speak English and made the worst decision of his short life when he disobeyed orders and turned towards two deputy sheriffs while holding what looked like a real AK.

It's a tragedy, but it is not an illegal use of force.

Still didn't answer my question, play stupid games win stupid prizes though

[Artema]

For ArtEnema
How do you know that my or anyone else's speculation is incorrect?
Do you have some inside information that you would like to share?
That is what I thought.
Good Day.

That's it?

[fiddletown]

Justified how? Why are we surprised that a kid (who was not breaking the law in any way) turns around when challenged from behind, any muzzle rise is likely reflexive at that point. Why are we even attempting to stop him? There's been no suggestion from any source that he pointed the gun at anyone, or acted in a threatening manner....

Seems to have been addressed in post 577:

Two independent witnesses told him to get rid of the AK; the second one told him the sheriff was driving up.

Then, as the patrol car pulled up, the driver blipped the siren and activated the overhead red/blue lights, finally, independent witnesses say that either one or both deputies shouted two commands to drop the gun.

The deceased did not have his hoodie up, was not wearing earbuds, was not deaf, did speak English and made the worst decision of his short life when he disobeyed orders and turned towards two deputy sheriffs while holding what looked like a real AK.....

I posted this a few days ago. Might as well repeat it.

Okay, who wants to try this?

You have two seconds to decide if that gun pointing in your direction from 15 feet away is real or fake. And if you're wrong, you will die.

Anyone interested in giving it a whirl?

[hambam105]

That is my answer to your question. You have to keep up.
That is all.

[infringed711]

Seems to have been addressed in post 577:

I posted this a few days ago. Might as well repeat it.

Once again you're assuming the kid had the rifle pointed at them, that is not known

[fiddletown]

Once again you're assuming the kid had the rifle pointed at them, that is not known

Seems to be some good reason to believe that the boy indeed had the gun pointed in the direction of the officers.

Here's how the incident was described in this story:

..."He was holding it in his left hand, he turned toward his right, and in doing so moved the gun toward the deputy, and in his mind, he was fearful he would be shot," said Santa Rosa Police Lt. Paul Henry. ...

And here's an excerpt again from post 577 (emphasis added):

Two independent witnesses told him to get rid of the AK; the second one told him the sheriff was driving up.

Then, as the patrol car pulled up, the driver blipped the siren and activated the overhead red/blue lights, finally, independent witnesses say that either one or both deputies shouted two commands to drop the gun.

The deceased did not have his hoodie up, was not wearing earbuds, was not deaf, did speak English and made the worst decision of his short life when he disobeyed orders and turned towards two deputy sheriffs while holding what looked like a real AK....

Do you have any actual evidence that any of that is incorrect, or is it just a matter of your prejudice?

[tonelar]

If he lived in a state where loaded open carry was legal, would that 13 year old be alive today?

I'll leave the speculations about whether the officers were justified to people more in the know than I. However, the banning of an entire class of firearm AS WELL AS the outlawing of loaded open carry are what killed that kid.

[Artema]

If he lived in a state where loaded open carry was legal, would that 13 year old be alive today?

I'll leave the speculations about whether the officers were justified to people more in the know than I. However, the banning of an entire class of firearm AS WELL AS the outlawing of loaded open carry are what killed that kid.

Agreed.

[empty the mag]

This is a mute point but just for conversation. We have all commented on the officers viewpoint good or bad. Why would a kid turn and aim an airsoft at police? At 13 did he think he would have a shootout with police? And I would love to know the coversation of the friend that gave him the toys.

[omgwtfbbq]

This is a mute point but just for conversation. We have all commented on the officers viewpoint good or bad. Why would a kid turn and aim an airsoft at police? At 13 did he think he would have a shootout with police? And I would love to know the coversation of the friend that gave him the toys.

I posted fairly early in the thread about prior incidences involving minors being shot while carrying toy guns/airsoft guns/bb guns. In cases where the minor survived, some said that their instinct when confronted by police is either to toss the gun away from them or to show the officers that the item isn't a real gun.

Adults are conditioned, generally speaking, that when confronted by an LEO with guns drawn, you do whatever they say, to the letter. Kids on the other hand are don't think the same way. They think "Oh Sh*t! I'm in trouble. I need to show them everything is okay" intend of following the officers instructions.

[inbox485]

I posted fairly early in the thread about prior incidences involving minors being shot while carrying toy guns/airsoft guns/bb guns. In cases where the minor survived, some said that their instinct when confronted by police is either to toss the gun away from them or to show the officers that the item isn't a real gun.

Adults are conditioned, generally speaking, that when confronted by an LEO with guns drawn, you do whatever they say, to the letter. Kids on the other hand are don't think the same way. They think "Oh Sh*t! I'm in trouble. I need to show them everything is okay" intend of following the officers instructions.

There is a parental duty to judge if your offspring is too retarded to be in public with something others might see as a weapon in an environment where there would be no lawful means to be carrying one. 13 is plenty old to have ceased to be a retard, but the sheltering nature of some seems to want to preserve stupidity for as long as possible then pawn said stupidity off on society when it becomes unmanageable.

[inbox485]

Two independent witnesses told him to get rid of the AK; the second one told him the sheriff was driving up.

Then, as the patrol car pulled up, the driver blipped the siren and activated the overhead red/blue lights, finally, independent witnesses say that either one or both deputies shouted two commands to drop the gun.

The deceased did not have his hoodie up, was not wearing earbuds, was not deaf, did speak English and made the worst decision of his short life when he disobeyed orders and turned towards two deputy sheriffs while holding what looked like a real AK.

It's a tragedy, but it is not an illegal use of force.

Please take your facts and leave. They are incongruent with the anti-police mob.

[inbox485]

If he lived in a state where loaded open carry was legal, would that 13 year old be alive today?

I'll leave the speculations about whether the officers were justified to people more in the know than I. However, the banning of an entire class of firearm AS WELL AS the outlawing of loaded open carry are what killed that kid.

Arguably maybe. The law banning carrying a loaded AK in public made what appeared to be happening something that would be already illegal. When the face value appearance of something equates to the person already being a criminal in possession of a weapon, the rest of the assumptions change pretty quickly. If said AK was legal, things might have been different, but then again, it wasn't slung, and he wasn't hunting, and it is sure sounding like he pointed it at a cop after being ordered to drop it twice, and told by bystanders that a cop was pulling up and to drop it, so I'm not sure if it is the mitigating detail you think it is.

[omgwtfbbq]

There is a parental duty to judge if your offspring is too retarded to be in public with something others might see as a weapon in an environment where there would be no lawful means to be carrying one. 13 is plenty old to have ceased to be a retard, but the sheltering nature of some seems to want to preserve stupidity for as long as possible then pawn said stupidity off on society when it becomes unmanageable.

No argument here. It was a good shoot. I was simply giving a possible reason as we why the kid didn't immediately drop the gun that wasn't "He's crazy and wanted to die" or "He had something to prove" like some other posters have said.

It's fair to say that it should commen sense that if you carry something that looks like a gun around a public place, incorported or not, you stand the chance of attracting some negative attention. It's a failure of parenting in my opinion.

I played Airsoft recreationally for several years in my late teens and early twenties and we played with a lot more realistic looked guns than the one the minor in this case had (I'm talking only differing in appearance by the orange tip) but we had the presence of mind to play on private property, with the permission from the owners.

[BlueRidge62]

I thought that here in CA, we passed laws to make sure toy guns were identifiable as such with orange muzzles after several children were shot by police both here and in other states over the years.

I thought as much too..and the makers of these guns always warn you to not display them in public. Cops are just so fearful now days that they often do shoot first and ask questions later..happened during the hunt for that Dorner guy..it happened here too....they should have "how to deal with cops" safety classes in school..