M4-M855 stopping power and reliability

[1lostinspace]

Years ago in a galaxy far away when 1lostinspace was a noob I wonder what the best round for my AR and will it jam with some dirt on it? We have wondered and assumed a few things. Well over ten years later with multiple weapon under my belt can tell you this.
The AR 15 is far more reliable then its given credit for! I have had more AKs break and malfunction then my ARs! Now I am not saying AK aren't reliable my Siagas and other AKs are top notch but there are a lot of company's selling junk out there. Lancaster,AZEX and the worse so far Ironglad! Back on track how reliable is an AR?

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0oGdUqiRCFShmAAOoJx.9w4?p=ar+dirt+test&fr=onesearch&fr2=

Not bad!

My best friend is a 20+ year USMC vet with tours in Panama and multiple Iraq not to mention training all over the world. He is a purple recipient with 109 confirmed kills 87 with an artillery strike.He took part in taking Fallujah and has seen a lot!
So one day I asked "how reliable was your M16?" He replied the only time I can recall having an issue was that it was so cold that the bolt froze stuck! Then stopping power got brought up and his exact words were " everyone either I shot or other Marines did was down!" Even in cars and at longer distances about 300m or 327 yards. He also mentioned one of the reasons people complain about 5.56 stopping power is due to not having a good zero!
He said I am sure it could be better but seemed to have a lethal effect!
Well guys there you have it coming from the real deal and not some armchair commando in his stained underwear Hope this helps.

http://youtu.be/PGgojSI62pI

[Mr.1904]

Word.

[1lostinspace]

Word.

Word? Like word up?

[1lostinspace]

Figured more guys would respond

[CrippledPidgeon]

Figured more guys would respond

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the reason why people aren't really responding is because you haven't said anything new that hasn't been said a thousand times before. Just anecdotes without hard facts behind them.

[1lostinspace]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think the reason why people aren't really responding is because you haven't said anything new that hasn't been said a thousand times before. Just anecdotes without hard facts behind them.

Its because it was posted late night but yeah its true it has been covered but you still get the idiot that thinks other wise. Either way this is coming from a vet and not some so called expert.

[SGTKane]

Ok, I'll bite. And troll. But be honest.

I'm a vet with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. On both deployments I was outside the wire most every day.

I won't get into kill counts, because frankly its nobody's business buy my own and those that sought to do harm to me and my nation. I grew up shooting and hunting in southern Idaho, shoot expert with the M-4/16, am an SQDM certified instructor, so I know how to group and zero and the importance of properly maintaining your gear and equipment. I've also take a few "civvie courses", both pistol and carbine.

And my weapon of choice to carry is the M-14, because while the M4 can get the job done, its a lot easier to do the work with the 14.

So there you go, now you have an anecdotal contrary opinion from someone who wasn't in the artillery.

[1lostinspace]

Ok, I'll bite. And troll. But be honest.

I'm a vet with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. On both deployments I was outside the wire most every day.

I won't get into kill counts, because frankly its nobody's business buy my own and those that sought to do harm to me and my nation. I grew up shooting and hunting in southern Idaho, shoot expert with the M-4/16, am an SQDM certified instructor, so I know how to group and zero and the importance of properly maintaining your gear and equipment. I've also take a few "civvie courses", both pistol and carbine.

And my weapon of choice to carry is the M-14, because while the M4 can get the job done, its a lot easier to do the work with the 14.

So there you go, now you have an anecdotal contrary opinion from someone who wasn't in the artillery.

He was in infantry. Gunnery Sergeant. They called in the artillery. How do you feel about room clearing with the long barreled M14? What about the ammo? Do you feel you can carry enough? How about in full auto? Think it can be effective? Is it the stoping power or penetration that you think 5.56 lacks over .308? What branch were you in?

Thank you for your service..

[Anti-Hero]

Why do you sound so confrontational about this topic?

[1lostinspace]

Why do you sound so confrontational about this topic?

Not sure what you mean? About the questions I am asking or my original comments?

If it seems that way I apologize just asking questions.

[Code7inOaktown]

Look up M4 and M855 and "fleet yaw" and "angle of attack." The basic issue is the M855 was developed for the M249 and it really runs into a velocity deficit out of short barreled carbines. It basically has problems fragmenting at ranges longer than 100 meters if I recall correctly. Fleet yaw and angle of attack relate to odd results where one round of 5.56 M855 or M193 is incredibly devastating on a target while the a soldier standing next to the one who fired the devastating round is seeing no effect from his hits.

Also, the AK's you cited are pretty well known for having issues.

I think we can all agree that there are good AKs with the legendary AK reliability and then there are bad AKs. Then there are very good ARs that are exceptionally reliable and ARs that live up the reputation of the AR because they're built by subpar manufacturers or frankenguns built by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

Anecdotal evidence is very difficult to rely on but I think the conventional wisdom of those who don't drink the the Kool Aid is that the AK is far more accurate than most believe it is, and the AR is far more reliable than people believe it is.

[1lostinspace]

Look up M4 and M855 and "fleet yaw" and "angle of attack." The basic issue is the M855 was developed for the M249 and it really runs into a velocity deficit out of short barreled carbines. It basically has problems fragmenting at ranges longer than 100 meters if I recall correctly. Fleet yaw and angle of attack relate to odd results where one round of 5.56 M855 or M193 is incredibly devastating on a target while the a soldier standing next to the one who fired the devastating round is seeing no effect from his hits.

Also, the AK's you cited are pretty well known for having issues.

I think we can all agree that there are good AKs with the legendary AK reliability and then there are bad AKs. Then there are very good ARs that are exceptionally reliable and ARs that live up the reputation of the AR because they're built by subpar manufacturers or frankenguns built by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

Anecdotal evidence is very difficult to rely on but I think the conventional wisdom of those who don't drink the the Kool Aid is that the AK is far more accurate than most believe it is, and the AR is far more reliable than people believe it is.

Yeah saw that on ammo oracle years ago I think 2800 fps is where it will not flag but still yaw. I agree with you on the AK AR thing.

[Noonanda]

I was an advisor to the Iraqi army in 2006 conducting majority dismounted patrols. We never had stopping issues on insurgents using M855 out of our M4s once we were able to get eyes on the insurgents. That was actually our problem, figuring out where the fire was coming from. I started using every other round a tracer so that I could mark targets/areas for my iraqis to engage.

[tnlrat37]

^^^ I was a DM in Somalia, I did the same thing with the tracers I was the only guy in my platoon with NVGs so it helped get guys on target. As for reliability we had 6 major weapon malfunctions, mine included. Cracked upper receiver, broken extractor, mag blow out. After investigation they attributed it to bad ammo, they dumped the entire lot in the ocean. Never had problems before or since, and would take one to combat any day. M14 for long range stuff would definitely be better but we didn't have them available. It all depends on mission and terrain

[SDgarrick]

I shot a couple soaked phonebooks with cast .45 200gr swc once. talk about devastation.