PART II: Felony for CCW in a "shall issue" state?

[RobG]

No. Reasons being:

1. I have already had a 10 day background check performed
2. If I feel the need to carry then I must have just cause for doing so. I shouldn't have to meet a certain category as to what some chief LEO deems just.
3. The courts have determined the police are under no obligation to protect me
4. If someone is nabbed carrying concealed w/o a permit either one of two things have occurred; (a.) the person is just carrying and has not used the gun in any fashion, or (b.) it is a felon or bad guy committing a crime and the least of the charges will likely be carrying concealed. So why make the unlicensed guy a felon if discovered? He will already be charged with a misdemeanor.
5. Shall issue in CA

[Brooke]

Felonies are for bad people

I haven't read through all the posts, but wanted to chime in.

As a criminal defense lawyer for 15 years, I'd hate to see the trade-off mentioned in these polls -- i.e., making CCW permits easier and the penalties tougher.

I understand the logic of threatening draconian penalties, but we shouldn't brandish that weapon if we're not ready to fire it. Do we really want to see felons made of people who might stick the .25 in their pocket for a run into a 7-11 in a dicey area? Or people who make technical mistakes, like carrying an un-permitted gun or failing to remove a sold gun from their permit?

I've just seen too many people go down on felonies that were IMO unfair. Technically guilty, yes, but not deserving of a felony. Many, many of my felony clients were more dim than dangerous. And don't think you could rely on prosecutorial discretion in these cases -- DA offices would be more than happy to get convictions that they see as getting guns off the street.

Thanks for listening.

[Danield]

I haven't read through all the posts, but wanted to chime in.

As a criminal defense lawyer for 15 years, I'd hate to see the trade-off mentioned in these polls -- i.e., making CCW permits easier and the penalties tougher.

I understand the logic of threatening draconian penalties, but we shouldn't brandish that weapon if we're not ready to fire it. Do we really want to see felons made of people who might stick the .25 in their pocket for a run into a 7-11 in a dicey area? Or people who make technical mistakes, like carrying an un-permitted gun or failing to remove a sold gun from their permit?

I've just seen too many people go down on felonies that were IMO unfair. Technically guilty, yes, but not deserving of a felony. Many, many of my felony clients were more dim than dangerous. And don't think you could rely on prosecutorial discretion in these cases -- DA offices would be more than happy to get convictions that they see as getting guns off the street.

Thanks for listening.

I thought .25s weren't legal?

[Brooke]

Hi, Danield. Are they illegal? LOL Just an example, anyway ...

[ohsmily]

I thought .25s weren't legal?

Why did you think that?

[Danield]

Why did you think that?

Something I heard at Turners, and they always tell the truth.

[drifts1]

why stop there:

lets make fishing without a fishing license a felony. Fishing licenses are rather easy to get and there is no reason not to get one.

How about not having parking permits on school campuses, that should be a felony since those are easy to get too.

Parking in handicapped spaces without a handicap placard, if you are truly handicapped those are easy to get.

Not having building permits for home additions and covered patios, felony.

Not having your pets licensed, felony,as that easy to do.

invalid car registration or being uninsured, felony?

just a lil sarcasm for you. I voted NO!

[jakemccoy]

I wonder if anybody here would vote differently after the Heller decision.

[CABilly]

Aren't there punishments if your CCW is revealed? And aren't there punishments if your OC becomes concealed? Why not just allow licenses for blanket CARRY?

[Pvt. Cowboy]

No, GOD no. Just no.

If you had a CCW, you'd understand how difficult it is to keep up with the myriad of patchwork laws blanketing the nation regarding carry even in states that share reciprocity with your own. Even legal carry within one particular state is complicated enough that you sometimes need it all written down on an index card clipped to the rear sight of your sidearm.

Just going to one of the 'CCW Map' sites doesn't tell the whole story -- many states have local, county, and state ordinances against CCW even though the state itself honors your permit. There's also Indian reservations to consider where you're boned in the ear if you're charged with illegal carry, as well as separate restrictions unique to the states on where carry is prohibited: OK to carry in establishments that serve alcohol in NV, but totally illegal in many states down in the Southeast USA, even if it's a truck stop that sells beer out of a refrigerated cooler in the quickie mart where you pay for the fuel you just pumped at the gas station. The laws you have to be aware of when traveling through states other than your own are numerous and no one can ever reasonably know. I can go on and on about these pitfalls: Your state may grant you a CCW for several years, but another state's period of authorization may be shorter, so they consider your valid CCW to be 'expired'. Legislatures could change reciprocity with your state at any time, and you'd never know unless you looked for changes in the law every day. In TX, a visible outline of your firearm under your clothing is prohibited even if you have a CCW, where in NV it doesn't matter if your firearm 'prints' or is even displayed openly. Don't even get me started on lawful CCW as it applies to transport in vehicles across the USA.

Truly, just having a CCW isn't tacit endorsement of lassaiz-faire concealed carry without care. To make any transgression a felony is just absurd. What's next on the bad ideas list? Mandatory prison time for expired auto registration? Oops, don't give the Kalifornia Politburo any more ideas. They're already trying to put half the state behind bars and making the other half state-employed jailers.

Why would you want to meet the anti-gunners halfway by allowing them to impose draconian penalties for unlawful concealed carry just so you can have some timid approval to maybe carry a gun sometimes, kinda sorta, depending on their whims? This is not the way to go about getting your rights established, and certainly not at the expense of those who do have them when you currently don't.

[fairfaxjim]

NO! Having a felony for simple posession of a firearm goes down the slipery slope of "simply having a firearm is bad!" Legally having a firearm should be no different than having a ball point pin or cell phone. The demonizing of the act of posessing a firearm is what has provided the Brady bunch and their ilk a lot of support. WHAT YOU DO WITH WHAT YOU POSESS IS WHAT SHOULD DETERMINE THE PENALTY! If driving a car ( a potentially very lethal tool) without a license isn't a felony, why should having a concealed or loaded gun without one be a felony??

[Mikeb]

GD-Bh
Very well said
thank you
Mike