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well people drive cars w/o a license all the time and thats not a felony. i say no...
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luck is a meeting of preparation and opportunity -
If there are no other violations involved then I see no reason to escalate this to a felony. I can't remember the last time I heard of anyone charged with cc as a felony in and of itself. Circumstances, priors, etc., escalates the seriousness of the offense.
When's the last time you heard of anyone getting a felony for driving without a license, it be a first offense or just cruising down the road with all else being legal?
The action is what it is whether a license is available or not.
Actually, I don't even see the point of this poll.
RioComment
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Interesting debate. On the surface, it does seem appealing...If it's a shall issue, then there should be no reason not to have a permit, and therefore, why not? Doesn't seem like you're giving up much does it? Well, my personal opinion is this is a very BAD idea for many reasons. Some of them have been covered: Financial limitations (well some will argue if you can afford a gun, you should include the cost of the permit along with it..not an unfair argument, but the fact is people wont), the 'immediacy' argument, and the fundamental RKBA, as well as others that I'm not even thinking about.
With regard to the RKBA, why even have a licensing requirement in the first place if it's a shall issue? You say to make sure felons don't have guns? Isn't it already a felony for a felon to have guns? Is the proposal under discussion going to stop any more felons from having guns than the current law? I always thought the premise is criminals don't care about laws, so make a million laws, and only you and I, the law abiding citizens who try hard to follow the laws are going to pay attention. The felon's gonna get a gun regardless of any one of those millions of laws. The real reason for a license in the shall issue environment is really a matter of revenue generation, and control of the citizens.
Now how about those who don't really want to carry concealed. With the many many different little definitions of what "concealed" really is, the "permit or felony" concept really puts some people who might make a very innocent mistake in very significant jeopardy of MANY rights..voting, gun ownership, security clearances, etc. Example? Well, beyond the individuals innocent misinterpretation of the law, how about someone who's got a cc permit, and leaves their gun in the car when they go over to a friends house, has one too many beers, and a friend drives him home so he doesn't get a DUI or kill someone. Friend drops mr. drunk off at his house, and takes his car home to park overnight and bring back in the morning. Friend gets popped, and johnny law finds the weapon in the car, and a very innocent person doing a good deed is now charged with a felony. Not my idea of a good law.
Now, one thing that makes a law "good" in my eyes is one that requires "intent". Our good Samaritan had no intent to carry concealed and doesn't deserve the pain involved in such a situation. If you asked me, the smart thing to do would be to use the fact that a weapon was at the scene of a crime as a significant sentence multiplier...perhaps a sentence tripler..Ie, the normal sentence is 5 years, have a gun and you'll get 15, with no parole, no good behavior time, no possible sentence reduction of any kind. That shows intent, and shows we as a society value punishing the criminal and not the law abiding citizen. (yes, I'm aware there are multipliers for some instances now, my argument would be to expand this concept to all crimes)
So, I guess it's no secret that I'm strongly in the "no" camp in this debate. Much as I believe if you aren't a felon, you should be able to carry, it's not worth the "cost" of this proposal to obtain the right that so many men and women who are far better than I could ever be have died to pay for already. Bad idea..bad bad bad.Comment
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Personally, I think that California's CCW laws should essentially mirror Oregon's. Basically, if you're carrying a firearm without the CCW, it's a Class A misdemeanor. (ORS 166.250) The CCW is a shall issue license for residents, good cause is not required. Furthermore, the license preempts all local ordinances and additional restrictions not already in the ORS (aka local restrictions) may NOT be added by the issuing Sheriff.Comment
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Its been a misdemeanor to carry a concealed weapon without a permit all along?!?!?
No wonder all these gang bangers are still out. ( They get caught, they get search, gun is found, pay a fine, spend some time, get out, still have gun rights, another person dies from a drive by.)v/r,
shawnyteee
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Bingo- give the man a cigar for 'getting it'.
Truly, if they are required to give you something in exchange for a fee and the privilege of poking into your private affairs, the only conceivable reason to maintain such a law is to generate revenue and regulate your behavior in spite of Constitutional limitations placed on them in our founding documents.
So trading "shall issue" for an felony enhancement of concealed carry without a license isnt gaining you more freedom, but more intrusion and regulation that has zero effect on those who choose to ignore the law.
Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat
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It was a joke. I was quoting this.
Illegal aliens, driving without a license. I'm sure you make the connection like I do, I think we're pretty much on the same page when it comes to illegals.well people drive cars w/o a license all the time and thats not a felony. i say no...
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glad you were jokin, thought you were serious for a second there...
believe it or not, plenty of people drive w/o a licence around here, all races all ages------------
luck is a meeting of preparation and opportunityComment
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No. Unreasonably high fees preclude many from obtaining what all non-felon or crazy should be able to obtain.
I would vote yes if the shall issue was not shall issue only for those with comfortable finances."There are no outdoor sports as graceful as throwing stones at a dictatorship." Ai WeiWeiComment
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I think there should certainly be a punishment for it, but not a felony."Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . you are, after all, anonymous."
-Barry Ritholtz
Help be a better advocate for the 2nd Amendment here.Comment
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I agree with you on this one. If the person was caught committing a crime and then found with a concealed weapon, then yes, no questions about it being a felony. But if a person is just caught j-walking and a gun is found on him/her then a $500 fine along with mandatory firearms training and said person (if qualified) must apply for a CCW within 60 days..Originally posted by tankermanOriginally posted by Douglas711Comment
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