Bad Experience-Poway Weapons & Gear

[Untamed1972]

John,
Thanks for the reply.
"As-Is" was not clearly marked nor was it mentioned. I should have asked about a warranty as I have in the past at other stores.
Yes it did cycle 1 or 2 times by hand with your hollow points, I appoligize for not mentioning it. Cycling by hand and firing it are 2 different things.

That is a true statement. If the store never actually fired the gun, then I dont think they can really came it's been thoroughly inspected.

I dont know what the store's policy is on test firing used guns prior to sale, or allowing a customer to test fire it before purchase. But if neither of these things are done or allowed then if you're selling it as a fully functioning firearm, but also stating the sale is "as-is" you're kind of putting your customer in a tough spot. And as a business owner it would prolly be a good thing to make sure you do EVERYTHING you can with to work with a customer who is having an issue because he bought something from you and took you at your word that it was fully fuctional, but given no other option to verify that prior to purchase.

[ucsdryder]

It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!

[Untamed1972]

It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!

Especially now that the OP has provided supposed testimony from another gunsmith that there may in fact be a legit issue with the gun.

But I agree, it doesn't do much for reputation of the business to basically make a post saying "tough sh*t". The loss of rep. cant be worth the few dollars of profit made on the gun. And if the store did not ever actually test fire the gun, I think their position that there is nothing wrong with the gun except ammo choice is on pretty shakey ground.

[jeffafa]

Well I guess this is a good enough time to submit my reviews of the place.
I've been in there quite a bit as I live close by and for the "most part" have been treated very well. I know the 2 main guys that work there are named Mike and Steve but I can't remember which is which. I believe Mike is the armorer (carries a Glock, does the duracoating?) and Steve carries a XD. If I have these 2 mixed up I apologize but it is relevant to my experiences there.

First off, I have purchased ammo there and have had 2 guns duracoated there.
Their ammo prices are a little high but they do post availability on their FB page when they get new stock in and don't limit quantities. Overall their prices are slightly higher than most other shops on just about everything, including guns.
The duracoating work was exceptional quality, reasonably priced and excellent turnaround with both being less than 2 days. I would highly recommend anyone interested in getting duracoating done to have these guys do it.

They are opening a new range early next year. It's supposed to be the 3rd largest indoor range in the country and I'm sure it will be nice with modern amenities. They are advertising a 25, 50, and 100 yard range totaling 42 lanes I believe. With that said, their membership prices are extremely high. For 1 year, for access JUST to the 25 yd range they are asking $500 per person/yr. and basically only includes reservations.
Here is a link to their membership prices, which are the highest I've ever seen:

http://weaponsandgearrange.com/membership-annual.php

Compared to other ranges, for someone who only shoots pistols at 25 yds or less this is way too high of a price. I currently have both my wife and myself as members at another range for $400 total, which includes free rentals. Granted it's not as "nice" as I'm sure the new range will be but to put holes in paper it suffices just fine.
I attended a hearing at City Hall to support them as a Poway resident as did a few of my friends. I also happen to know one of the newly elected Poway council members and he and I had a discussion about supporting the range before the council's final vote. I'm not claiming it made a difference but it shows that local residents showed support for getting the range open. It would be nice if they offered a resident discount and/or included more in their basic membership costs.

The only thing that really rubbed me wrong was when I mentioned something to Steve(?) about SSE going away was that he replied with, "Good, I'll be glad when that's gone!" I know it's probably just personal opinion, but then he proceeded to tell me that he owns at least 1 off-roster pistol through the intrafamilial transfer through his dad. I guess the fact that as a vendor in an already excluded community that you feel it's ok to own an off roster gun through an exemption but not support others from owning them through a different exemption just doesn't sit right with me. I haven't been back to that shop since as I would rather spend my money with a more supportive business.


EDIT:
I just noticed something else on their membership pricing - their "Casual Shooter" membership actually costs MORE than their "Silver" membership by about $55/yr. and doesn't include the family 1/2 price!
Weird marketing approach there:

SILVER Annual Fee $499
Unlimited Access to 25 Yard Range
Front of Line for 25 Yard Range
Free Reservations -25 Yard Range
Family 1/2 Price Lane Rentals with Member

Casual Shooter Membership (Total $555/yr.)
Access to the 25 yard range, front of the line privileges and reservations!
Initiation Fee - One time $75
Monthly Fee $39.95
* Must set up on auto debt or credit card for monthly billing

[L4D]

Here you should just copy and paste this, then edit your post.

Hi DuneShoot,

Sorry you're having issues with the handgun you purchased from us. Bring it back and we will take a closer look and test fire to make sure you have a properly functioning weapon as we stand behind what we sell 100%.

Hope to hear from you soon,
PWG

[FeuerFrei]

Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.

[davegar1]

Any reputable gun shop would give the customer the benefit of the doubt and at very least take the weapon back for store credit if the malfunction was legit.

[modls7]

Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.

QFT. You take a risk anytime you buy something used. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Understand the terms to which you buy things, and get it in writing. If you fail to do this then you've failed yourself. Ideally things should not be this way, but they are.


Best of luck w/ Tanaka.

[RandyD]

Buying a firearm is not much different than buying a car. If you want a product that has never been used, and has the backing of the manufacturer, then you buy a new car or firearm. When you buy a used firearm or car, then you are taking a chance that the product may have been abused by the previous owner(s). It is unrealistic to purchase a car or firearm, from a dealer that is selling it, especially if it was sold "as is", then expect the dealer to repair and remedy every defect that you subsequently discover.

In summary, the OP had the opportunity to inspect the firearm prior to purchase. He elected to purchase the gun in "as is" condition. Now, he wants the dealer to incur the cost, time and effort to make his firearm in new condition. This is unreasonable.

[Untamed1972]

Buying a firearm is not much different than buying a car. If you want a product that has never been used, and has the backing of the manufacturer, then you buy a new car or firearm. When you buy a used firearm or car, then you are taking a chance that the product may have been abused by the previous owner(s). It is unrealistic to purchase a car or firearm, from a dealer that is selling it, especially if it was sold "as is", then expect the dealer to repair and remedy every defect that you subsequently discover.

In summary, the OP had the opportunity to inspect the firearm prior to purchase. He elected to purchase the gun in "as is" condition. Now, he wants the dealer to incur the cost, time and effort to make his firearm in new condition. This is unreasonable.

I didn't see the OP asking for it be put into "new condition". I saw him asking for it to be made to function...which right now it does not. Saying that you can cycle ammo in manually is like saying "well the car we sold you doesn't actually run, but you can push it down the street and it will roll."

If the store is represting the gun as "in fully fuctioning condition" states that it's been inspected and checked over by the armor etc, then "AS-IS" means you're accepting a functioning firearm with whatever cosmetic blemishes and wear it may have etc. It doesn't mean "well we said it's funtioning and have inspected it, but it may not actually work at all."

Legally speaking the shop may be covered......but from a business perspective it seems like a pretty bad business plan to leave a customer holding the bag like that and then post a response here that basically boils down to "tough sh*t, sucks to be you."

If the gun is in fact a cobbled together piece as the OP is suspecting it might be, something that nearly anyone here likely would not be able to spot via a visual inspection, and perhaps even escaped the notice of the pro's at the shop, then the shop misrepresented what it was they selling and should make it right.

At a minimum out of good customer service they should at least test fire to verify what the OP is saying and see if they thing actually does fuction or if it is malfunctioning as the buyer is claiming.

[jeffafa]

At a minimum out of good customer service they should at least test fire to verify what the OP is saying and see if they thing actually does fuction or if it is malfunctioning as the buyer is claiming.

This!

I understand that buying used comes with risk. I also understand that good customer service will usually result in return business. It's a trade-off for the vendor. How much negative publicity has this shop now received from potential customers who may not shop there in the future as a result of reading this? Rhetorical question obviously but if you're a small business owner in a niche market with higher prices than your competition you can't really afford to not take care of your customers.

[Untamed1972]

This!

I understand that buying used comes with risk. I also understand that good customer service will usually result in return business. It's a trade-off for the vendor. How much negative publicity has this shop now received from potential customers who may not shop there in the future as a result of reading this? Rhetorical question obviously but if you're a small business owner in a niche market with higher prices than your competition you can't really afford to not take care of your customers.

Yep.....exactly.

Imagine if the OP had posted how he'd bought this gun it was having issues and he took it back to the shop and they fell all themselves to look into it and check it out and make it right and how great his experience was with them because of how they took care of this issue and made sure he was a satisfied customer.

[pc_load_letter]

It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!

This ^^^

I've only purchased parts there, not to mention a horrible duracoat job, but I can surely say I will absolutely NOT purchase a gun from there.

Plenty of other good shops in SD.

[pc_load_letter]

Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.

I would tend to disagree. I gun is meant to shoot bullets. There are TONS of moving parts involved. If a shop does not allow a detailed inspection (such as a field strip, as some shops DO NOT allow), then there has (should) be some protections for the buyer.

It's perhaps very difficult to see the inner workings of a firearm or how ammo feeds if not allowed to test fire or field strip. If I had a shop, I would allow a 10 day return policy after pickup to return a used firearm.

[SloChicken]

Yep.....exactly.

Imagine if the OP had posted how he'd bought this gun it was having issues and he took it back to the shop and they fell all themselves to look into it and check it out and make it right and how great his experience was with them because of how they took care of this issue and made sure he was a satisfied customer.

I live not 20 miles from this place, have yet to have been there yet, but I do buy Firearms, Parts, and Ammo quite regularly. I like to keep my dollars local if possible.

That said,
Higher than average prices and the attitude from Poway Guns in their post has just severely decreased my odds of going there for my needs.

the issue may be with the OPs ammo, but the response from the Vendor sucks.
Cost of doing business is sometimes you have to eat a bit of profit to keep the customers happy. Part of owning a shop, or business in general, is that you purport yourself as an "expert", and by doing so, you are selling that service as someone that can be "reliably trusted" that when you sell a gun to someone and state it is functional, that it in fact is.
I seriously doubt that the customer was told the pistol had feeding issues.
When brought to your attention, in effect, you told the customer to pound sand.
If the pistol was in the same shape as it was when it left, often the store (usually) would take it back from the customer and work out a deal for a different weapon or a amenable deal of some sort.
That fact seems to be missed by Poway guns.