DROS Fee

[Bumslie]

No who's the one name calling.

[jj805]

The old CA PC (they renumbered them, which makes it harder to find the section again:



A later sale is not single.

Did you forget what commas are for?

12077
...
(4)One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

Emphasis added.

[jj805]

How can you leave it open? You say that it is closed when the DROS is submitted and that has to be done to start it. That means you can't leave it open. The only liar is you. I have not said that there are FFLs who do it, the actual question is to whether it is legal or not and you seem to think that if they do it, then it is legal, which is extremely bad logic on your part.

Here is a question for you. If the DROS is closed right after the paperwork is filled out on day one, why the hell do you sign again on the pick up date, and the pick up date and time are noted? HINT: The DROS is not complete until the pick up time and date are recorded, so it is open until then.

[kemasa]

No who's the one name calling.

Sorry if you don't like the truth. It is not name calling, it is just stating the facts.

[kemasa]

Did you forget what commas are for?

Emphasis added.

And your point? That says that only one DROS is submitted for any number of non-handguns, BUT it has to be part of a single sale, loan or transfer. Once you submit it, then the "single" ends. If a FFL sells a firearm on Monday and the person comes back on Friday and buys another firearm, do you really want to claim that is a single sale?

Here is a question for you. If the DROS is closed right after the paperwork is filled out on day one, why the hell do you sign again on the pick up date, and the pick up date and time are noted? HINT: The DROS is not complete until the pick up time and date are recorded, so it is open until then.

I love this type of argument. You make things up, then you use that.

The DROS is submitted. When a long gun DROS is submitted, you have entered how many firearms are being transferred. If you increase the number to more than is actually being transferred, then that is submitting false information, which is subject to perjury charges, as stated on the form.

You seem to be getting confused with the different processes between CA and Federal. You never sign the DROS again. The 4473 is not complete until the FFL signs it, but that is separate from the DROS.

Now, you want to claim there is an "open" and "closed" status, but that is just not the way it works. If you want to claim that it is "open", please document such claims and also show where it is possible to change the number of firearms listed on a long gun DROS. There are limited fields which can be modified until 30 days are up, but it is never reported to the DOJ when the date is filled in, so it is actually possible to make some changes after that date, although that could cause some issues.

[kemasa]

Emphasis added.

It is amazing how people choose to ignore certain things:

12077
...
(4)One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

Can you read that now?

A firearm sold later is not part of a single sale, loan or transfer, especially since the DROS was already submitted.

[jj805]

And your point? That says that only one DROS is submitted for any number of non-handguns, BUT it has to be part of a single sale, loan or transfer. Once you submit it, then the "single" ends. If a FFL sells a firearm on Monday and the person comes back on Friday and buys another firearm, do you really want to claim that is a single sale?

Where in the PC you quoted dose it pertain to a sale? Look closely, it says a DROS has to be submitted for each transaction, and then it gives you the definition of "transaction" Where in the definition of "transaction" does it limit it's meaning any more than what is there?

12077
...
(4)One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

I love this type of argument. You make things up, then you use that.

The DROS is submitted. When a long gun DROS is submitted, you have entered how many firearms are being transferred. If you increase the number to more than is actually being transferred, then that is submitting false information, which is subject to perjury charges, as stated on the form.

You seem to be getting confused with the different processes between CA and Federal. You never sign the DROS again. The 4473 is not complete until the FFL signs it, but that is separate from the DROS.

Now, you want to claim there is an "open" and "closed" status, but that is just not the way it works. If you want to claim that it is "open", please document such claims and also show where it is possible to change the number of firearms listed on a long gun DROS. There are limited fields which can be modified until 30 days are up, but it is never reported to the DOJ when the date is filled in, so it is actually possible to make some changes after that date, although that could cause some issues.

Go ahead and argue against the truth all you want. The fact is you only sign ONE form when purchasing a firearm. It is left open until it is completed on the pick up date, or the 30 days elapse. Now I am curious at to what FFL you work at. I live in Ventura County, and want to make sure I don't give money to FFLs that don't know s**t about firearm laws in CA.

It is amazing how people choose to ignore certain things:



Can you read that now?

A firearm sold later is not part of a single sale, loan or transfer, especially since the DROS was already submitted.

Where does it say that in the PC? If it is forbidden, it has to be stated. That is how PCs works in CA. And again, the commas are there for a reason.

[Colt562]

but please back up your claims with something real.

back up your claims of working at a FFL first?

[kemasa]

Where in the PC you quoted dose it pertain to a sale? Look closely, it says a DROS has to be submitted for each transaction, and then it gives you the definition of "transaction" Where in the definition of "transaction" does it limit it's meaning any more than what is there?

Are you serious? Do you not see the word "sale"? It could be a sale, loan or transfer.

Read the whole CA PC if you like.

Go ahead and argue against the truth all you want. The fact is you only sign ONE form when purchasing a firearm. It is left open until it is completed on the pick up date, or the 30 days elapse. Now I am curious at to what FFL you work at. I live in Ventura County, and want to make sure I don't give money to FFLs that don't know s**t about firearm laws in CA.

That is funny. You are claiming that I am arguing against the truth, as if you are the keeper of the truth.

Your "fact" is wrong. You do not only sign one form when purchasing a firearm. You have to sign the DROS AND you have to sign the 4473, twice (because of the waiting period).

You don't understand the DROS process. You claim it is left open. What exactly do you think that means? Do you think it is open for ANY changes? If so, you are completely wrong. It used to be that you could change the serial number on a handgun, but that was changed due to abuses where the FFL would start the transaction without having the actual firearm.

I know the law, but it seems clear that you don't know what you are talking about. You don't know that you have to sign multiple forms when purchasing a firearm, one for CA and the other for the Feds.

Where does it say that in the PC? If it is forbidden, it has to be stated. That is how PCs works in CA. And again, the commas are there for a reason.

It also says what is required. A DROS needs to be submitted for each firearm transaction. Each handgun is a firearm transaction. Any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer is considered a single firearm transaction, so only one DROS needs to be submitted. The problem with your argument is that you want to claim that a later sale is part of the original transfer, even though days have passed. How do you justify that it is part of a single transfer? Just because you want to???

So, if the FFL sells a rifle on 01-Jan and submits the DROS, then the person comes back on 09-Jan and buys another rifle. When was the second rifle sold? If it was sold on 09-Jan, then there is a 10 day waiting period, so it can not be given to the person until 240 hours have passed. If you think it was sold on 01-Jan, please explain how that is possible.

The real joke is that you want to think it is legal because some places do it. Then you go on to claim that those who say it is not legal are wrong. What do you base that on? Well, those who do it. You are not basing it on the law or anything else and you attack those who say that the law does not allow it.

[kemasa]

back up your claims of working at a FFL first?

You are not very bright, are you?

I guess you don't want to stick to the subject, but that is to be expected since you don't want to deal with the CA PC and instead want to claim because some do it that it is legal instead of looking at the laws.

[jj805]

Are you serious? Do you not see the word "sale"? It could be a sale, loan or transfer.

Read the whole CA PC if you like.



That is funny. You are claiming that I am arguing against the truth, as if you are the keeper of the truth.

Your "fact" is wrong. You do not only sign one form when purchasing a firearm. You have to sign the DROS AND you have to sign the 4473, twice (because of the waiting period).

You don't understand the DROS process. You claim it is left open. What exactly do you think that means? Do you think it is open for ANY changes? If so, you are completely wrong. It used to be that you could change the serial number on a handgun, but that was changed due to abuses where the FFL would start the transaction without having the actual firearm.

I know the law, but it seems clear that you don't know what you are talking about. You don't know that you have to sign multiple forms when purchasing a firearm, one for CA and the other for the Feds.



It also says what is required. A DROS needs to be submitted for each firearm transaction. Each handgun is a firearm transaction. Any number of non-handguns which are part of a single sale, loan or transfer is considered a single firearm transaction, so only one DROS needs to be submitted. The problem with your argument is that you want to claim that a later sale is part of the original transfer, even though days have passed. How do you justify that it is part of a single transfer? Just because you want to???

So, if the FFL sells a rifle on 01-Jan and submits the DROS, then the person comes back on 09-Jan and buys another rifle. When was the second rifle sold? If it was sold on 09-Jan, then there is a 10 day waiting period, so it can not be given to the person until 240 hours have passed. If you think it was sold on 01-Jan, please explain how that is possible.

The real joke is that you want to think it is legal because some places do it. Then you go on to claim that those who say it is not legal are wrong. What do you base that on? Well, those who do it. You are not basing it on the law or anything else and you attack those who say that the law does not allow it.

Are you seriously mistaking the definition for ONE word of the PC for the meaning of the whole PC. LMFAO. Where is Wildhaker's "Purple Hamster Masturbator" quote when you need it

[kemasa]

Are you seriously mistaking the definition for ONE word of the PC for the meaning of the whole PC. LMFAO. Where is Wildhaker's "Purple Hamster Masturbator" quote when you need it

Don't make things up, it makes you look bad, but I guess that is all you have. I said to read the whole CA PC so that you know ALL of what it says, not the select bits and pieces that you jump on. I have seen that too many times. The one funny one is the claim that firearms which are the same as a firearm on the certified list can be transferred due to one section which says that the firearm does not have to be tested, but people ignore the rest which says that the manufacturer has to submit a letter and get it added to the certified list.

[kemasa]

Oh, it seems that based on some the "attacks", it appears that there is a claim that what I said is only relevant if I am a FFL. Following that to its conclusion, that means if you are not a FFL, what you are saying is not relevant. I doubt that you get that and it is quite hypocritical, but that is common for discussions.

[mosinnagantm9130]

Op should execute a citizens arrest on the next person he sees do this. We wouldn't want illegal firearms transfers now would we?

[jj805]

Don't make things up, it makes you look bad, but I guess that is all you have. I said to read the whole CA PC so that you know ALL of what it says, not the select bits and pieces that you jump on. I have seen that too many times. The one funny one is the claim that firearms which are the same as a firearm on the certified list can be transferred due to one section which says that the firearm does not have to be tested, but people ignore the rest which says that the manufacturer has to submit a letter and get it added to the certified list.

YOU selected the PC for discussion, and you can't even read it correctly. Let me help you.

12077
...
(4)One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

This means any one of the three below:

1. One single firearm sale shall be reported on each record of sale document.

2. One firearm loan shall be reported on each record of sale document.

3. One firearm transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns shall be reported on each record of sale document.

Nowhere in there dose it state anything else that restricts what can and can't be done. So if the purchase of one long gun on any day of the year, followed buy another purchase of a long gun 10 days later, could be considered one TRANSACTION.

So, if the FFL sells a rifle on 01-Jan and submits the DROS, then the person comes back on 09-Jan and buys another rifle. When was the second rifle sold? If it was sold on 09-Jan, then there is a 10 day waiting period, so it can not be given to the person until 240 hours have passed. If you think it was sold on 01-Jan, please explain how that is possible.

Again, Where in the PC, not the definition of "transaction", does it say "sold", or "sell", or "purchased", or any other form of exchange? See below, the PC has had emphasis added, the definition of "transaction" has been left alone.

12077
...
(4)One firearm transaction shall be reported on each record of sale document. For purposes of this subdivision, a "transaction" means a single sale, loan, or transfer of any number of firearms that are not handguns.

No one here is saying you have to do this. Your house, your rules. What we are saying, is that you can do this.