Straw man purchases and spouses

[junior40er]

If you are both legal then I wouldnt sweat it. just handle this as if its her gun, in her name. I just dont like when people arent legally allowed to own a weapon due to being a felon and due straw purchases. But looks like thats NOT the case here. I have thought about buying 1 gun, 15 days later my wife buys next gun and 15 days later I buy another gun and etc etc just to collect a little faster. of course half our guns are actually hers and half are mine.

[Latebraker]

If I pay for the gun, but my spouse does the DROS and picks it up, does that count as a straw man purchase?

Yes.

A straw purchase or nominee purchase is any purchase wherein an agent agrees to acquire a good or service for someone who is unable or unwilling to purchase the good or service himself, and the agent transfers the goods/services to that person after purchasing them.

[CWDraco]

If I pay for the gun, but my spouse does the DROS and picks it up, does that count as a straw man purchase?

Yes.

No. Latebraker, that is wrong. A spouse is not subject to that ruling based on common sense. You are saying a wife has no 2nd Amendment rights nor does she have a legal means to acquire a firearm because she has to ask her working husband for the money.

A husband can give money to a spouse to buy a firearm. A parent can give money to a child to buy a firearm. A bank can loan a person money to buy a firearm.

A straw purchase is a purchase that is made to circumvent a law. It has nothing to do with where the money came from, even though that is one thing that proves a straw buy.

So if the husband is giving her the money to purchase a firearm he could not buy himself, YES, that is circumventing a law and is illegal. It has nothing to do with the money. If the money used was from her employment its still a straw buy.

[DemocracyEnaction]

stay away from guns fishing and other stuff in vacaville. they are straight up crooks.

[bigred1]

guns are considered communal property between a husband and a wife. It doesn't matter who pays for it, it only matters who DROS and if a handgun who registers.
That being said accept for a few certain counties, you are allowed to put your wife's pistols on your CCW. COMMUNAL property

[Latebraker]

No. Latebraker, that is wrong.

I wouldn't be so sure.

While the action proposed by the OP may not be something a DA would pursue, it would technically be a 'straw purchase' according to DOJ.
They (DOJ) are not interested in prosecuting purchases such as this and would likely dismiss it as legal.

However, the action itself may raise a red flag with some FFL's out there and might be a PITA this individual could avoid by simply waiting until he is available to make the purchase himself.

[CWDraco]

I wouldn't be so sure.

While the action proposed by the OP may not be something a DA would not pursue, it would technically be a 'straw purchase' according to DOJ.
They (DOJ) are not interested in prosecuting purchases such as this and would likely dismiss it as legal.

However, the action itself may raise a red flag with some FFL's out there and might be a PITA this individual could avoid by simply waiting until he is available to make the purchase himself.

Dude, I understand what you are trying to say, but its wrong. Its wrong on many levels. Its like saying its illegal for a black guy to fly a plane because they have bad vision. Its based on junk science and complete racism.

Yes, FFL are ignorant too. They don't have to sell a gun for any reason. Even if it's a legal sale, if they have any question on the legality, they can refuse. A guy asking his wife for the checkbook was the case two guys were arguing over in a thread i read. The FFL said the husband had to walk into the store with the checkbook. The fact his wife carried the checkbook made it a straw buy.

This dispute I read was here between two guys. I then called the BATFE and asked them. I was transferred several times and spoke with an agent who was nearly laughing so hard it made me laugh. He even asked for the web address to read it himself.

The "lawyer" here was 100% wrong. It is a straw buy and an illegal transfer if you are doing it to get by any law. It has nothing to do with where the money comes from. No matter how or what you read, even read from the ATF website because people read things that are not there or interpret things not meant.

A dead body doesn't equal the crime of murder, but someone does need to die.

A straw buy doesn't need a transfer of money, but a firearm must be purchased.

A person is trying to hide the fact they are buying a firearm, that is a straw buy. Even if they person isnt a felon, (like trying to buy 2 handguns in 30 days here in CA). It has nothing to do with where the money comes from.

[Latebraker]

Laughing ATF agents?

Now that's funny.

I offered solid advice. The OP can do whatever he wants with it.

[madoka]

If the gun is for you, not a gift, then she would be making an untrue statement if she were to say it was for her - and she must say that (or that it is a gift) on the 4473.

Holy crap! This morning my wife found a ladder was put next to our balcony. Of course, neither of us moved it there. I was away for the weekend in Bakersfield for the gun show/prepper con. We checked and there were no signs of a break-in, but now she is freaked out and wants a gun of her own ASAP. This happens the day after she passed her handgun safety test with a perfect score. Incredible coincidence!

She has heard from other parents that there's been a bunch of burglaries in the neighborhood recently. Now I have to research into motion detectors, lights, cameras and how to better secure the house.

Now I'm assuming if I give her one of my guns until she can DROS her own, everything is legal right?

[Librarian]

Holy crap! This morning my wife found a ladder was put next to our balcony. Of course, neither of us moved it there. I was away for the weekend in Bakersfield for the gun show/prepper con. We checked and there were no signs of a break-in, but now she is freaked out and wants a gun of her own ASAP. This happens the day after she passed her handgun safety test with a perfect score. Incredible coincidence!

She has heard from other parents that there's been a bunch of burglaries in the neighborhood recently. Now I have to research into motion detectors, lights, cameras and how to better secure the house.

Now I'm assuming if I give her one of my guns until she can DROS her own, everything is legal right?

For a loan of less than 30 days, since she has her HSC, absolutely no problem.

For a loan of less than 3 days, HSC not required.

If you leave your guns (or some of them) at home, and she chooses to take one out of the safe you could call it a 'loan of an hour or so'.

I can't promise that CA is sensible, but I suspect that in sensible jurisdictions the idea of questioning one spouse using another spouse's gun simply would not come up.

[CWDraco]

There is no law saying you can only defend yourself with a gun you own.

Couple things to keep in mind;
Safe storage- You can leave a gun on a table fully loaded, but if a child injures someone or themselves, you are guilty of criminal storage.
If your wife has access to your firearms, she must not be a prohibited person.
You do not need a HSC to use a firearm for defense.
You do not need a HSC to be married to a person who owns firearms, even if you have access to those firearms.
You must posses an HSC to take possession of a handgun.

PS- Its not "loaning" a handgun when you leave it in a desk drawer. Just saying.

[-hanko]

I wouldn't be so sure.

While the action proposed by the OP may not be something a DA would pursue, it would technically be a 'straw purchase' according to DOJ.
They (DOJ) are not interested in prosecuting purchases such as this and would likely dismiss it as legal.

However, the action itself may raise a red flag with some FFL's out there and might be a PITA this individual could avoid by simply waiting until he is available to make the purchase himself.

I'd be very sure.

How 'bout citing the California PC that prohibits the scenario mentioned in the OP...

California DOJ does not accept or dismiss prosecution, that's the DA's bailiwick.

FFL's who see a red flag should consult with their BATFEM or CA DOJ agents to verify they are FOS.

hth

-hanko

[stilly]

I think you need to obtain a certificate of elegibility or whatever it is called that allows you to purchase more than 1 handgun every 30 days. I forgot what they cost, but they are not too expensive and I think they are good for a year or so. I had this issue back around last november. I had 3 handguns coming my way. 2 from Gunbroker and 1 from a shop's inventory. I ended up having the guns shipped out of state and then let someone else buy them for me, then they came here and did the transfer as PPT for both handguns and it did not affect my purchase of the instate handgun.

Worst case scenario though you can have your wife buy the gun for you then transfer ppt I think IF you gotta have it in your name now. I think that as long as we follow the law in the end that we are still decent people and they should leave us the **** alone...