SAFETY: please think about no-fire/delay-fire ...

[bwiese]

[Mods: I figure this may reach more general audience here than in specialty pistol/rifle forums...]

This past Sunday afternoon, my buddy Phil & I were shooting at a local indoor range breaking in two new guns (my Sig P226 Mk25 and Henry 44Mag lever action rifle), plus doing some general shooting. Zero problems with these guns.

Gun: Ruger Stainless Bisley Blackhawk 44Mag single action, 5.5" bbl.
Ammo: Miwall 44Mag TMJ (new loads, not reloads)

The only time I've had a no-fire (hangfire?) in ages has been in autoloaders - where there a click and no action cycling, and a 'second strike' was used to fire it, no muss/no fuss.

This time, I was firing a fairly rapid progression in a revolver, down to last 3 rounds. Then there was a 'click' - then "Boom" and "Boom" - I didn't stop. (I would have if there were a squib load; been thru that w/reloads.)

I then spun the cylinder around to the nonfired position. As I was moving to aim position and almost beginning to cock, the gun fired on its own (no trigger pull, and the gun wasn't even cocked) - a true "hangfire", it was 'cooking' in the cartridge for a bit of time before detonation.

• Approx. 10-15 sec elapsed between initial 'click' vs. discharge
  .
  
• Discharge felt a *tad* light but in no way a squib load (verified clear barrel from rear
  after discharge!)
  .
  
• If I had NOT rotated the cylinder back to the nonfired position, the discharge WOULD
  have damaged the gun - and likely my hands to some extent - depending on cylinder
  position.
  .
  
• If I WERE rotating cylinder back to the problem nonfiring position and the hangfire
  discharge occured before getting back to that position, then my left hand could have
  really been torn up. [Fortunately there may have been mitigating factors - Bisley
  Blackhawk is a big strong gun - and these loads were not the hottest.]
  

HOW TO PROPERLY DEAL WITH SUCH PROBLEMS:

• ALWAYS need to wait 30 or more seconds if there's a "click"/ hangfire before taking any
  measures to cycle/eject/remove/round.
  .
  
• On revolver...
  
  
  • STOP FIRING and leave 'dead' round chambered in firing position.
    .
  • KEEP HAND AWAY FROM THE CYLINDER and of course the BARREL/CYLIDNER
    GAP AND FRONT OF CYLINDER areas. (Duh, but just in case.).
    .
  • KEEP GUN POINTED IN SAFE DIRECTION. Do NOT do anything to rotate cylinder
    nor try to eject problem hangfire round until at least 30 seconds (if not more).
    .
  
  
• On an autoloader pistol...
  
  
  • a non-fire involves no action cycling, so a 'second strike' is possible
    and may well work. - esp. if a full double-action pistol.
    .
    
  • Single-action pistols require recocking of an an exposed hammer - so there
    is small risk of a hangfire discharge kicking the slide back into your thumb
    while you're trying to (re)cock the hammer. At worst you might get a minor
    cut from this.
    .
    
  • Hammmerless striker-fired pistols generally do not have any 'second strike'
    opportunity without hand-racking the slide: this should not be done, as the
    problem round could discharge while the slide is being racked, with breech
    unlocked... leading to "Ka-Boom" issues and certainly damage to gun.
  
  

What I did right: kept gun in hand, pointed in safe direction!

While this involved a revolver and I've generalized to pistols, you should also keep this in mind on rifles too - esp since a rifle cartridge is generally is of higher energy than revolver ammo!

[mshill]

Thanks Bill. Something to keep in mind both for myself and when I take others out shooting. You just don't think about bullets malfunctioning in this way.

[Justintoxicated]

I don't get it, your saying the primer went off without being hit? Or it went off but was not strong enough to pop the projectile out of the case?

I have never even heard of that, I didn't know it was possible.

[Wiz-of-Awd]

Good info Bill

A.W.D.

[Oksana]

I don't get it, your saying the primer went off without being hit? Or it went off but was not strong enough to pop the projectile out of the case? I have never even heard of that, I didn't know it was possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_fire

[numpty]

THanks for that. I'm a new shooter and never had any issues, but was just wondering what to do in a situation like this. When the trigger is pulled and it doesn't fire, I've heard to wait to see if the round will fire for 30 seconds or a minute, but I like how you broke it down. Also, I'm not sure what a squib feels or sounds like, but how would you check the barrel on an autoloader if you think you may have one stuck in the barrel?

[engi]

Scary stuff. Thanks for the reminder.

[bwiese]

I don't get it, your saying the primer went off without being hit? Or it went off but was not strong enough to pop the projectile out of the case?

I have never even heard of that, I didn't know it was possible.

This is a "hangfire" - where there is a delay in ignition of several (or more) seconds. That's why it started out with just a 'click'.

Inside it's just sizzling a bit until it finally detonates. This could be due to a weak primer, or sometimes (usu not in production ammo but "working up a load") due to inappropriate powder volume/powder type vs primer, etc.

.... just wondering what to do in a situation like this. When the trigger is pulled and it doesn't fire, I've heard to wait to see if the round will fire for 30 seconds or a minute,

Yup. And I didn't not do that on my "shot string".

... not sure what a squib feels or sounds like, but how would you check the barrel on an autoloader if you think you may have one stuck in the barrel?

A 'squib' round is one that somehow went 'bang' but the powder didn't fully detonate, did not detonate at a high order, or did not detonate at all and only the energy of the primer was used to move the bullet down the bbl.

In these cases the primer-only detonation often will leave the bullet within the barrel.

However, in any of these cases, the 'bang' is much weaker, etc. If you feel something "not quite right" and a very "weak" bang that has far less recoil or noise level, DO NOT FIRE FURTHER: YOU MAY BE FIRING ON TO A BULLET ALREADY STUCK IN BARREL/CHAMBER. The first (stuck) bullet will not damage anything, and a brass/Delrin rod will easily remove the stuck bullet. The bullet AFTER the stuck bullet is the one that causes damage: at best, the barrel bulges due to very high pressure, but metal splitting/debris could also occur.

[high_revs]

scary... good to know... thanks bill.

[IVC]

Also, I'm not sure what a squib feels or sounds like, but how would you check the barrel on an autoloader if you think you may have one stuck in the barrel?

Squib feels like a very light load. Think 22LR or weaker out of an 45ACP handgun. Sound will not tell you much since you're wearing muffs, but you'll feel that something was wrong with the round. The slide might not cycle, but it often does.

After your time window for a hang fire, when you eject the round, look from the breach end into the barrel and see if any light is coming through. If you have a flashlight point it into the barrel from the front and you should see some of it coming through. Remember, if you see the light it doesn't mean you're in the clear after a malfunction, just that you *might be* in the clear. If there is no light coming through, you can be pretty sure that the bullet is still in the barrel.

[Casual_Shooter]

I was at an outdoor range recently and witnessed this first-hand (not Bwiese). A guy was shooting a small caliber rifle. Rifle went click. Shooter angled the gun up(ish) to look at the action. Satisfied all was well, he lowered the rifle back down toward the target. About half way down, the rifle went off.... no idea where that round landed.

[Centurion_D]

Glad to see no one was injured. Could have turned out really bad if you weren't paying attention.

[AlaskaGuy]

My son had a squib round in his Beretta PX4 this weekend at the range. After it happened, he tried to load another mag, rack the slide and it wouldn't let him. After I disassembled the gun to see if I could tell what was going on, the range officer was able to tap out the bullet which was about a half an inch down the barrel. My son said he saw a bit of smoke come out of the ejection port when it happened, but hadn't thought that it was an issue. He learned a bit.

[ja308]

This is an important topic ,thanx for posting BW . Glad everything worked out well and no injuries occurred ! It sure could have been a problem.

I had an incident at the Kingman Arizona range where I pulled the trigger on my m14 and nothing happened . Pulled harder a still nothing .

I then lowered the buttstock from prone and when removing the mag the hammer hit and the round fired .

Fortunately there was nothing beyond the berm , if that had been a different range like Eureka , a 308 rd could have went into a population area.

The cause was a broken pin within the firing mechanism !

If you experiance uncommon circumstances its best to wait as outlined and keep the gun in a safe direction

[wweigle]

Thanks for posting this event for us to be reminded that it does happen, rarely, but we all need to keep the safety procedures in mind in the event it does.