AR 15 FIXED MAG

[battleship]

SO FIRST OF BEFORE YOU ALL RESPOND.

I have read over the calguns DOJ fact sheet.

That said, i have had my AR with a bullet button for a couple of months now and taken it to the range in concord, had no problem with anyone at the range, who saw me drop the magazine with the use of a bullet.

I to have witnessed many others with there AR15 dropping the mag to reload with the use of a bullet or other object at the range, with no problem.

So today i went to a local gun dealer who sells ARs and parts for them and asked if i could buy a extra mag.

I was shocked to find that although this is no problem.

My ffl told me that dropping a mag even with the use of a bullet button and tool to aid it, is ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA, what ARE YOU KIDDING ME, i replied, but i have proof from the DOJ fact sheet from calguns that it is legal, was my rebutle.

And promptly told him what makes it legal.

He informed me that yes it is legal in California to have a bullet button on your AR but it is not legal to use it to drop the magazine on California soil.

In California you can only load by braking the action open and top loading. -he told me.

Well i was shocked to here this, and mildly argued with him on it, now i consider him my friend so i was not going to insult his knowledge.

But i told him i would write about it on calguns just so i can put it to rest and hope that he is wrong.

The last question on the subject of the AR with him was- why does California let you have a bullet button on a fixed mag if you can not legally drop the mag to reload it, his answer was that is for when you want to take your AR out of state to shoot.

Please tell me that my ffl friend is miss informed, and that it is perfectly legal to drop your AR mag to reload.

[Jicko]

Your FFL is mis-informed. Ask him to quote CA PC and/or CCR.

[Blue]

Your FFL is spreading FUD.

[M. Sage]

Your FFL is mis-informed. Ask him to quote CA PC and/or CCR.

Both of which the AW ID Flowchart does.

Print the flowchart (it's in the upper right corner of the screen) and show it to him.

He's working off old info.

[battleship]

Im not up on these codes what is PC/CCR

[leelaw]

Penal Code
California Code of Regulations

And use the search function. This has been hashed out, many times.

[battleship]

Yes the flow chart does say it is legal but his argument was that although you can have a AR in this configuration, were does it say it is legal to use it in this way to reload

[Breadfan]

[Jicko]

Yes the flow chart does say it is legal but his argument was that although you can have a AR in this configuration, were does it say it is legal to use it in this way to reload

PC/CCR or LAW state what is illegal..... and if it is NOT ILLEGAL... it IS LEGAL.

law101

PS. that's why i said... ask your mis-informed FFL to quote PC/CCR stating that it is ILLEGAL to remove the magazine to reload!!!! He won't be... as it is NOT listed as ILLEGAL..... it ONLY said that it is illegal to have "detachable magazine".... whereas the CCR defines that needing a tool means it is NOT "detachable magazine".... ie. removing the magazine for reloading NOT EQUAL to "detachable magazine" evil AR

[battleship]

I hope it is just fud its his word against many, i believe you all, but he seemed so adamant about what he was telling me. i shall print out the sheet and take it to him at the Valejo gun show next week, but hes going to come back with were does it say you can reload in this configuration, - by dropping the mag.

[oaklander]

Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for
Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines

5469 Definitions.

The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1:

(a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

AND

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

[mecam]

Simple answer:
With a Bullet Button, you no longer have a "detachable magazine" per CADOJ's definition of what a detachable magazine is. There is no law regarding "attachable magazine".

[leelaw]

Yes the flow chart does say it is legal but his argument was that although you can have a AR in this configuration, were does it say it is legal to use it in this way to reload

The Penal Code doesn't tell you what you CAN do, it tells you what is ILLEGAL.

[battleship]

I agree with all of you but his argument was realy about what was the legal way to reload an AR his answer was only from the top via braking the lower from the upper, wether you have a fixed mag or not.

[oaklander]

General rules:

1) if you heard it at a gun shop, with certain exceptions (i.e., the advertisers on this board), it is likely to be complete FUD and/or B.S.

2) if you heard if from "someone" or "them" it is likely to be complete FUD and/or B.S.

3) if you heard it from the DOJ, and it's not in writing, there's about a 90 percent chance it is wrong.

4) if you heard it from the DOJ and it is in writing, there's about a 50 percent chance it is wrong.

5) if you heard it from Gene or Bill, there's about a 100 percent chance it is right.

6) if you heard it from the attorneys at T&M, there's also about a 100 percent chance it is right.