If you can't afford a safe, you can't afford a gun.

[Linh]

That's my new mantra. If you lock up your guns, no one will steal them. If no one steals them they won't be used in crimes. Less crimes with guns means less bad press. Less bad press means we get left alone. When I am at home, my firearms are accessible. When we go to work in the morning or go away for the weekend they are locked in the safe. I wouldn't mind seeing an ad campaign by the NRA, the manufacturers and maybe even the government stressing the importance of gun safes. They do get expensive but I think in this day and age they are a necessity and would solve a lot of problems.

wow where do new members come up with these crazy ideas? Is this also like if you lock up your car, no one will steal it? Or how about if you lock up your house no one will break it?

Must be an undercover anti gunner.

[Decoligny]

you cant steal what you cant find.....

I had a neighbor who got burglarized when I was living in another state. The crooks turned over every piece of furniture in the whole house. Thieves know about hidden compartments and will tear a house apart if they think there are valuables to be had.

[tcrpe]

wow where do new members come up with these crazy ideas? Is this also like if you lock up your car, no one will steal it? Or how about if you lock up your house no one will break it?

Must be an undercover anti gunner.

Do you lock up your house?

Do you lock up your car?





Why?

[SilverTauron]

Citadelgrad, your assumptions are not equal to proven fact. No plan survives first contact with the enemy,as the saying goes.

I lock my car doors and front door, mostly out of habit and so that the police know entry was forced in the event of an incident. I'm not deluded enough to think a 3/4" deadbolt inside of a cheap wooden door frame is going to stop anyone from forcibly entering my apartment. That's why I have a loaded firearm within reach even as I type this.

[Linh]

That's my new mantra. If you lock up your guns, no one will steal them. If no one steals them they won't be used in crimes. Less crimes with guns means less bad press. Less bad press means we get left alone. When I am at home, my firearms are accessible. When we go to work in the morning or go away for the weekend they are locked in the safe. I wouldn't mind seeing an ad campaign by the NRA, the manufacturers and maybe even the government stressing the importance of gun safes. They do get expensive but I think in this day and age they are a necessity and would solve a lot of problems.

Let's go one step further and make it illegal to own any firearms then no one can steal it since there won't be any. So then we'll have ZERO chance of a firearm being used in crimes.

[Citadelgrad87]

Let's go one step further and make it illegal to own any firearms then no one can steal it since there won't be any. So then we'll have ZERO chance of a firearm being used in crimes.

Right, because like every other aspect of life, since its not 100% effective, you don't do it on principle. So you don't wear a seatbelt, lock your front door, or your car. You keep your money under the mattress because banks get robbed.

Right?

[retiredAFcop]

Do you lock up your car?





Why?

Do you put your locked car into a vault at night (not a garage, but a vault)?

I guess if it gets stolen or broken into, it's your fault. And if the car thief runs over an old lady or a kid, you'll volunteer for the gas chamber, since you are responsible for that death?

Because that's the equivalent of what some here are demanding regarding guns.

If you put your possessions behind a single lock, then you have secured them from accidentally being accessed. When a criminal defeats a lock, or series of locks, they assume all moral liability for what happens next - and it's wrong to hold the victim accountable for the actions of the criminal.

[tcrpe]

My guns are surrounded by several layers of security, including gun safes. Are yours?

[Citadelgrad87]

Do you put your locked car into a vault at night (not a garage, but a vault)?

I guess if it gets stolen or broken into, it's your fault. And if the car thief runs over an old lady or a kid, you'll volunteer for the gas chamber, since you are responsible for that death?

Because that's the equivalent of what some here are demanding regarding guns.

If you put your possessions behind a single lock, then you have secured them from accidentally being accessed. When a criminal defeats a lock, or series of locks, they assume all moral liability for what happens next - and it's wrong to hold the victim accountable for the actions of the criminal.

You are arguing about something that no one else is. No one is saying you should be liable if a legally owned item is stolen and misused.

MANY are arguing that there is NO REASON, absolutely no reason, to lock up firearms. Security, and the fact that my safe cost far less than it would cost to replace my firearms, are reasons enough for me.

MANY are arguing that since safes are not 100% effective, they simply wont use one, but they cannot answer why they lock their car up, since car thieves will steal it anyway. This is of course counter to the reason these same people lock their front door, lock their cars, and use seatbelts, since none of those are 100% effective, either.

It's not an answer to this logic fail to address civil or criminal liability for theft when that's not the reason I lock up my firearms, and not the reason I think everyone should. I am not advocating the government do anything, I just think it's silly to not take steps to protect your own things from the scum that walk the earth.

[tcrpe]

I'll add another when I can figure out how to move this beast:



I'm told it's 3,900#

[Citadelgrad87]

I'll add another when I can figure out how to move this beast:



I'm told it's 3,900#

You've probably already thought of it, but a depression, or poured cement curb around that to negate the wheels would be great.

I love how in that sales video they just flip it on it's back, to do that, you'd need to do way more than push any of my safes, who keeps a safe in the middle of a concrete floor anyway?

[kf6kmx]

Safes are like x3-x20 times more expensive then the price of an average firearms.
If you can afford $2000-$5000+ firearms then I can see you can maybe afford a good safe.
But people buying maybe one pistol can afford maybe a lock box or small box safe.
I own multiple firearms and I do own a safe, it's not the most expensive or best built but it's what I could afford.

Exactly. If you are buying a pistol for home defense or CCW, you are spending $300-$600 for a good one new (less maybe if PPT)... I have not seen a decent gun safe (not lock box, but "safe" as mentioned in the thread title) for under at least $550... With the economy the way it is, money is generally tight. Most people who do it all legally, paying for the classes, gun, etc to get a CCW, depending on the area, they are going to spend $800-$1000 just on that (that includes the gun/class/etc).. Then on top of that another $500+ for a low-end safe?
I have a lock box, and how/where the box is, it is VERY doubtful a criminal would locate it (then be able to get it open or unmounted) in any amount of time less than it would take them to get into one of the lower end $500 'safes' (which would be by function of its size, out in the open and visible, which my lock box is not). The only advantage the safe would give me is more (maybe, but at the low end price not much) fire protection.

I have a friend who has two large safes (small bank vaults!) that their family has a multi-gun collection split between... They have well over $2500 in just their gun safes... But they have over $10k in their firearm collection stored in those safes... In a case like that when you have that big a collection, yes, 'if you can afford your guns you can afford the safe'... But that really doesnt apply to the 'average Joe' who is trying to have protection..

[kf6kmx]

I had a neighbor who got burglarized when I was living in another state. The crooks turned over every piece of furniture in the whole house. Thieves know about hidden compartments and will tear a house apart if they think there are valuables to be had.

Yeah, a lot of the trick is to make something NOT look valuable... I have a friend who is very skilled at taking small lock boxes and the small document fire safes you buy at Staples and Office Depot, and disguising them in ways that most people, including 90% of crooks in your house, wouldn't think to look at, even if they are turning over and looking in/under every piece of furniture in your house (and checked the cereal boxes and freezer too)..

[sunaj]

That's real snobbery,
gun safes are expensive, and while you must get one as soon as possible that is an unjust burden for low income citizens,
besides these are all good ideas but they are being used
by gun banners as an end run around the 2nd Amendment,
get in a fight with your girlfriend (or boyfriend)? We need to take your firearms for safe-keeping,
getting depressed over losing your job? We need to take your arms (temporarily of course) for your safety-
I would like to have a moat with salt water crocs to protect my house
but I hafta settle for a pit bull

sunaj

[Darto]

One case where a person probably needs a gun very badly is someone who is very poor living in a cheap high rise tenement in the ghetto of a major city. Every night they hear sirens and see crime going down right out their window (drug dealers standing on sidewalk).

They have no way to carry a heavy safe up the stairs. If they hire someone to do it, many other residents will see it, and will know he has guns. He is now a target. Because guns are what buglers mainly want in that neighborhood. Nobody has jewels or mink coats or expensive electronics. The loot looked for to steal are guns and drugs.

So there is an exceptional special case, some old guy living in the ghetto, up several flights of stairs.

Still, he could get a lightweight safe, carried himself with friends in a plain box, and then bolted to the wall studs with the bolt heads locked inside the safe.