Crooked FFL? Or just California?

[Shakeyshooter]

Hello Gentlemen, Ladies!

I have a question I'd like to ask, I'm hoping knowledgeable people may be able to help me out. Any FFL's out there would surely know, many of you would also I imagine.

I recently purchased a firearm off of Gunbroker, a beautiful 1969 Ruger Single Six in immaculate condition for my Son as a Christmas present.
Here's where the question comes in and it will involve some knowledge and math.

I will break it down, the Single Six was $399.00
Credit Card Fee $13.97
Subtotal $412.97
Shipping $38.95
Taxes $36.48
Fees $3.99
---------------------------------------------------
Total Payable $492.39

FFL Charges Transfer Fee $50.00
DROS $37.19
FSC Card Fee $15.00
FSC Test Fee $10.00
Lock $9.99
FETReimburse $44.00
TA1 $62.18
TX1 $5.44
-------------------------------------------
Total $171.62

Is this correct?

I had an FSC Card by this FFL from a test I took one year ago. I lost my wallet and my card with it. They said they have no record of it and I have to take it again. Is there not a record of it?
I had 2 firearms transferred to this FFL last year, each time they say I must buy a lock, even though I have many locks and had to purchase 2 from them last year. They said it has to be on the bill?
My California taxes are collected by Gunbroker at the time of purchase I believe. My tax rate is 8.75%. I do understand the idiotic excise tax is 11%, and DROS $37.19

If someone could give me a hand on the amount I should be paying after the $492.39 I paid Gunbroker, and the questions above, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,
Rich

[Gawernator]

$50 is actually reasonable when many FFL charge $75-150+. Sales tax should be local rate plus 11% state excise, and the rest looks about right. No idea what FETReimburse is supposed to be.

[chrisw]

Did that FFL charge that FET BS on the last 2 transfers?

[hermosabeach]

you should obviously only pay 1 CA Sales tax. Reach out to gun broker for better proof that you already paid CA Sales tax and for what city / county.

[jarhead714]

If you lost your card you’re screwed, they got you there. WTF is a FET reimbursement?

[Spaffo]

Federal Excise Tax?

[one*eyed*jack]

That looks about right. And they are correct about the locks. Every firearm has to come with a lock, or you purchase one from the dealer, or you bring in a lock with a reciept dated within 30 days, or you can fill out a safe affidavit.

My opinion is just California.

Nice choice of a gift for your son!

[The Gleam]

That looks about right. And they are correct about the locks. Every firearm has to come with a lock, or you purchase one from the dealer, or you bring in a lock with a reciept dated within 30 days, or you can fill out a safe affidavit.

My opinion is just California.

Nice choice of a gift for your son!

Mostly right, there are different laws on locks in play for Fedral and CA state, and exceptions for long-guns.

There is a Federal law that requires handguns come with a lock, or be supplied with/provided a lock - this is a handgun, so no way around that. And the safe affidavit does not apply to the Federal law on handgun locks.

If the seller had sent a lock with the gun, you would not have had to buy one - pending the lock the seller provided was 'CA DOJ Approved'.

There also isn't any specified allowance or limitation about having a receipt for a lock "purchased within 30 days'. That's something FFLs cooked up to sell locks. It's merely a 'lock provided'.

Long-guns in California have a similar lock rule, but if you have a safe, one can sign an affidavit of confirming the safe model to avoid the lock issue.

On the Sales Tax - if you had a paper copy receipt from the seller or Gunbroker showing you paid the tax, you should have provided that to the receiving FFL to show you already paid the sales tax. He can than put that with files to show the tax was previously paid. If your address registered with Gunbroker has a lower sales tax, say 8% and you only paid that much in tax, whereby the sales tax rate of the location of your receiving FFL is 10%, then he should have only charged for 2% sales tax difference.

On the FET - I can only guess that is in fact a 'Federal Excise Tax' reimbursement which would be 11% of taxable items. The only taxable items should be the cost of the gun $412.97, shipping at $38.95, the lock at $9.99 and possibly the $50.00 transfer fee. But the $44.00 is a random number, because even 11% on just the $412.97 is higher than $44.00.

California abbreviates its Excise tax as CFET if that helps, so if that's meant to be the California Excise Tax, not Federal, and he's charging for the California Excise tax in the other tax line item too, he's double dipping.

https://cdtfa.ca.gov/online-filing-instructions/CA-Firearm-and-Ammunition-Tax-Return.htm

Yet I've never seen any FFL, in more than 50 years of purchasing firearms, EVER charge for the Federal Excise Tax.

All the other fees, credit card fee you paid to Gunbroker, DROS, FSC fees, and other taxes are not taxable - but some retailers mistakenly tax some of these fees because their accounting programs/software treat them as a regular purchase item.

As for all costs and fees, that needs to be posted/ publized in writing prior to purchase.

The lost FSC would require a new one, the store is not obligated to keep it on file for you or archiv it, neither does th state - and there are special rules about it even if they did, same place, same person, etc. So that's a legit charge.

In summary, you were likely and correctly charged for the lock, but double charged on taxes, and the FET charge looks to be bullcrap and radomly figured - not that he can't charge the Federal Excise Tax back to you, but is a lousy thing to do.

As for being 'crooked' - maybe not - they may just be dumb on gun laws, accounting, and tax laws, and/or has bad accounting/bookkeeping software.

---

[chrisw]

I'll add that with a FFL transfer I did last week the lock was only $4.99

[P5Ret]

The FSC is tied to the person who issued the card, not to the store. So yes if the person who gave the test and issued the card, isn't there there will be no way to retrieve it. Always make a copy, or have a pic of your FSC on your phone especially if you get it at a big box store, most of them have a big turn over rate.

[one*eyed*jack]

There also isn't any specified allowance or limitation about having a receipt for a lock "purchased within 30 days'. That's something FFLs cooked up to sell locks. It's merely a 'lock provided'.

---

PC 23635
...
(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
...

[The Gleam]

PC 23635
...
(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
...

Correct - but it says nothing about providing a receipt to prove that.

---

[one*eyed*jack]

Correct - but it says nothing about providing a receipt to prove that.

---

I should have quoted (c) in its entirety.

PC 23635
...
(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer, which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealer's record of sales of firearms.
...

[morrcarr67]

Here's a thing not discussed much about the lock.

The code says you must buy one for that firearm within 30 days before taking possession of that firearm.

No where does it say you must keep said lock.

I used to run over to Walmart and buy a new lock when I was doing a PPT, day of. I would also keep a lock in the car all the time. When I met up for the PPT, I would check to see if the seller had put a lock in it. If not I would grab my lock from the car and put it in the box. If the FFL wouldn't accept that I "bought" the lock at the same time I bought the gun, and wanted to make me buy a new lock. I would tell them to hold on a second and go out to the car and get the one I had just bought from Walmart.

This some times would upset the FFL because they weren't going to get me on a $10-20 gun lock that sells for less than $5. Sometimes they even open the package saying that they had to get the model number off of it, even though the model number was on the package. I think they thought by doing this that Walmart wouldn't let me return it. I never had any problem return any lock I bought form Walmart.

[1911-CV]

There is a 'safe affidavit' thing, I'll try to find it. From memory (which is more suspect every day), the feds allow it explicitly (somewhere in regulation) and DOJ permits it without any clear reference in statute or regulation.

I'll see if I can find the reference and update later...

----

Update, I had it backwards, CA PC 23635 (b)(1) allows the transfer if the purchaser possesses a safe...

The feds have 18 U.S. Code § 922 (z) which seems to require the seller to provide the safe, but in practice, they accept the safe affidavit under PC 23635(b)(1) as meeting the requirement.