CAguns.net website

[ikeo]

Very well said. I would go even further, as my guess is that being a bay-area centric member base (although I have no hard evidence to suggest, just my read on it), it goes with the territory for those who fit your excellent description. Those folks of leftist persuasion tend to be very outspoken in many life facets, including the whole subject of gun culture in America.

The majority is in SoCal. The thing is you guys are all for freedom and liberty but talk condescendingly to people if they don’t feel or believe the things you do.

It’s as if you think everyone needs to be deeply rooted in 2A in order to participate, but that’s a very idealistic point of view. If you want to change laws, do you think there’s a majority to get enough votes? You have to bring left leaning people who accept guns into the circle of gun culture. The thing is there’s many different kinds of culture. Shotguns and skeet is another world. Truth be told, guys with that mentality moved out of state, so what’s the plan?

Spyder we do more than play games. By Gamifying the scenarios you test your equipment in several conditions. How many people shoot at night with CCW and WML or in the rain in less than ideal environments. Many people are newer you’re right about that , which is why the focus is getting people more experienced with handling firearms and the responsibility that comes with ownership. Otherwuse, what resources would they have? I try to let people know they can train live fire for ~$30-$50, get better, more consistent instruction and make some like minded friends. A lot of people don’t know that.

Nothing is wrong with your thoughts on what we do, but I do suggest to keep an eye on how we evolve. There is a plan with a direction, whether we achieve it or not is yet to be seen.

This site was supposed to be the one focused on the political movement with the Calguns Foundation etc. perhaps you can enlighten me on where that is now. It’s my understanding the foundation still exists.

I have a couple of members who are litigants against the state with active cases and have different well known orgs reaching out to members to become litigants. We try to support them but isn’t as widely known since those guys keep a low profile. These things take time but I’m content with the progress over 18 months from basically nothing and very little support. A few guys believed in what I was doing. I’m grateful to them for the encouragement because everyone made fun of me in the beginning.

jarhead714 im also from the attitude era. I definitely think people these days are way too soft and complain way too much online and do too little in real life.

[Spyder]

The thing is you guys are all for freedom and liberty but talk condescendingly to people if they don’t feel or believe the things you do.

Anyone who advocates for, assists in, or willfully accepts loss of freedom and liberty for people other than themselves deserves nothing less than condescension.

Are we supposed to be inclusive and accepting towards thieves, slavers, and pedophiles? That's goddamned retarded. Sometimes it's ok to look down on others, when those others are bad and evil people.

[Spyder]

Spyder we do more than play games. By Gamifying the scenarios you test your equipment in several conditions. How many people shoot at night with CCW and WML or in the rain in less than ideal environments. Many people are newer you’re right about that , which is why the focus is getting people more experienced with handling firearms and the responsibility that comes with ownership. Otherwuse, what resources would they have? I try to let people know they can train live fire for ~$30-$50, get better, more consistent instruction and make some like minded friends. A lot of people don’t know that.

Nothing is wrong with your thoughts on what we do, but I do suggest to keep an eye on how we evolve. There is a plan with a direction, whether we achieve it or not is yet to be seen.

Like I said, there's room for both sites. Your focus on this is great, and I hope you succeed at it. It is unfortunate that so many folks there are accepting and even advocate for the loss of freedoms that we see being assaulted every day. Part of the responsibility of learning about firearms ownership is learning about the history and purpose behind the right. Appleseed is a great example. Combine safety, marksmanship, and history instead of just the game without thought to consequences of being uninvolved with or even against the process which lets us even participate in the way of life.

For a lot of us, freedom is a way of life where guns and history are a lot more than "gamifying a scenario."

[ikeo]

Like I said, there's room for both sites. Your focus on this is great, and I hope you succeed at it. It is unfortunate that so many folks there are accepting and even advocate for the loss of freedoms that we see being assaulted every day. Part of the responsibility of learning about firearms ownership is learning about the history and purpose behind the right. Appleseed is a great example. Combine safety, marksmanship, and history instead of just the game without thought to consequences of being uninvolved with or even against the process which lets us even participate in the way of life.

For a lot of us, freedom is a way of life where guns and history are a lot more than "gamifying a scenario."

Many of those people left the state. A new cohort is here where history and freedom isn’t the same as your definition. Freedom is more about safety. The way of life of guns is a thing of the past, especially in urban areas and doesn’t apply to people these days. The difference is people are assaulted everyday and need to be able to protect themselves.

gamifying gives people the chance to train, I don’t know if you still live in California, but it’s very hard to find ranges that allow you to train. You seem unaware that the new generation is a gen that grew up under the current laws while you grew up with other ones pre 80’s and 90’s. Whats normal is different.

You also start with gamification before you move to the next level of development. The longer people are in 2A the more the see how things affect them. That’s why change takes time but people are so accustomed to immediate results.

[ikeo]

Anyone who advocates for, assists in, or willfully accepts loss of freedom and liberty for people other than themselves deserves nothing less than condescension.

Are we supposed to be inclusive and accepting towards thieves, slavers, and pedophiles? That's goddamned retarded. Sometimes it's ok to look down on others, when those others are bad and evil people.

Look at who you’re comparing. We have people who are active litigants against the state. I asked you what’s being done by members here. The problem is when you look down on people who do more in the real world but don’t have the same ideological view conceptually. People are at least trying to do something instead of talking about it behind a computer talk about how you’re better.

There’s also a lot of irony with who the people here accept based on your last paragraph. Criminals are criminals, people who are new to 2A are not criminals but you seem to look at them as such. There’s a lot of work to be done educating people and building a stronger community but being condescending isn’t the way to do it IMO. Both sites should exist and one site should lead to the other for growth. Too many people here look at things as separate communities but the right people traverse all of them and help onboard and influence the growing thousands of people coming into the space. There’s a book The Power of Influence by Ty Bennet is an example of what you can change with younger audiences. We just have to adapt communication and education styles and takes time.

On the internet, people will preach all day weeks and months and not change a single persons position. At the range in less than 1 minute you gain the respect from a group of people based on your skill level, have a real convo about gun laws in person and you’ll see how they gradually change their opinion as they gain more experience. I’ve seen it personally. That then affects the people around them.

Games are trivial to you but they’ve been used by strategists and military forever to train people. UAV’s are the latest implementation. It’s a different more modern approach that takes time.

[splithoof]

Freedom is more about safety. The way of life of guns is a thing of the past, especially in urban areas and doesn’t apply to people these days.

That sounds like something Josh Sugerman (HCI) said long ago…

[Spyder]

That sounds like something Josh Sugerman (HCI) said long ago…

I don't know who that is but I have zero interest in catering to people who believe **** like that. Freedom is about freedom, not criminalizing peaceful but useful hobbies.

[Spyder]

Many of those people left the state. A new cohort is here where history and freedom isn’t the same as your definition. Freedom is more about safety. The way of life of guns is a thing of the past, especially in urban areas...

See. Your fail to comprehend from the very beginning. You're advocating for and accepting changing the facts of history. You think that someone saying freedom and liberty are a way of life is just about guns. You write off an entire massive portion of people in this country as a thing of the past and are perfectly willing to and accepting of the concept of wiping all of those from history. Your words, not mine, saying that your new cohort redefines freedom and history.

You talk this big talk about not being condescending to folks who think differently than you while in the same breath make it clear you have zero respect for their beliefs, their way of life, their very existence, while also redefining words into some abstract weakened version of what actually is.

You wave your hand in the air dismissively with your nose in the air while saying "I don't care about you, you live in the country," while simultaneously being on your knees begging for to continue to be allowed a privilege which many of us demand and refuse to give up as a natural born human right.

Freedom and liberty are not about safety. They never have been. Your utter and abject failure to understand that, or perhaps it's your desire for someone else providing "safety" so you can be comfortably numb, is quite apparent to those of us who stand on principle, understand history can't actually be changed by softening definitions of words, and whom actually understand and live freedom and liberty as a way of life and not just a weekend game.

[ikeo]

See. Your fail to comprehend from the very beginning. You're advocating for and accepting changing the facts of history. You think that someone saying freedom and liberty are a way of life is just about guns. You write off an entire massive portion of people in this country as a thing of the past and are perfectly willing to and accepting of the concept of wiping all of those from history. Your words, not mine, saying that your new cohort redefines freedom and history.

You talk this big talk about not being condescending to folks who think differently than you while in the same breath make it clear you have zero respect for their beliefs, their way of life, their very existence, while also redefining words into some abstract weakened version of what actually is.

You wave your hand in the air dismissively with your nose in the air while saying "I don't care about you, you live in the country," while simultaneously being on your knees begging for to continue to be allowed a privilege which many of us demand and refuse to give up as a natural born human right.

Freedom and liberty are not about safety. They never have been. Your utter and abject failure to understand that, or perhaps it's your desire for someone else providing "safety" so you can be comfortably numb, is quite apparent to those of us who stand on principle, understand history can't actually be changed by softening definitions of words, and whom actually understand and live freedom and liberty as a way of life and not just a weekend game.

Right, look at the people talking here about principles but do nothing but judge others. You're projecting your grievances and your definition as if you define it for yourself. You don't speak for me and I don't speak for you. I'm saying a new cohort has a different understanding based on their life experiences which is different than yours because they grew up with different laws in place in a different environment.

You fail to acknowledge that people live a different life than you. I see and meet people who are entering for their own reasons but you take it as mine. When I see hundreds to thousands of people a year who enter 2A at the range for live fire. I agreed with you there's room but mention that others like to speak down on others without recognizing peoples reasons for 2A is different than yours. Instead you go on about bending knees when I specifically tell you we have active litigants represented in ongoing court cases and support them. The people here are in a gated community with very few new entrants so its understandable why you don't see the kind of people i see.

Let me ask you this, You stand on principle and history, where do you recruit people to build up a coalition to actually change laws in California?

[jarhead714]

‘Coon, you bring new definition to what it is to overthink something. 👏🏻🙂↔️

[ikeo]

‘Coon, you bring new definition to what it is to overthink something. 👏🏻🙂↔️

It’s just observations from seeing thousands of different people in the past 18 months. It’s been an interesting journey. I have so many people pulling in different directions I can empathize with the owner here. It’s tough man

[Spyder]

You fail to acknowledge that people live a different life than you.

Says the guy who wrote off millions of people and their way of life as meaningless and antiquated.

Take a few steps back, be a little more open minded, see that there is more to the shooting sports and firearms world than weekend games. I get that you're not interested in learning about or even acknowledging freedom minded folks who live differently than you. Unless you're aiming for hypocrisy, however, you really should consider not being so condescending towards those who live differently than you.

[splithoof]

“who enter 2A at the range for live fire.”

What does that even mean?…Does it mean (to you) that the mere act of discharging a firearm in some sort of controlled fashion/venue/organized activity means that they are now somehow upholding or supporting the second amendment to the constitution?

As to your question of another member about what they are doing regarding laws, I personally recruit folks to join organizations such as CRPA, SAF for example. I also have spoken publicly to groups about why we need the constitution, the 2A in particular, it’s history, and why infringements are never good, despite generations who have grown up under oppressive laws that states like California are so eager to enact and enforce.

It’s great that you get people involved in shooting, but if you sell it as jus another “sport” without a bit of the history of why some of us are into firearms and the 2A, it becomes just another activity open to the government to regulate and trim down as it sees fit.

[splithoof]

I don't know who that is but I have zero interest in catering to people who believe **** like that. Freedom is about freedom, not criminalizing peaceful but useful hobbies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Sugarmann

He is one of the leading voices to destroy the 2A in America. He has a long track record going back decades. I remember him from the 1980 Prop-15 campaign to freeze the number of existing handguns in California. He has received accolades from various recognized democrats. Yes, that is the same Democrat party that some of the more vocal members over on the raccoon site openly support.

As to freedom, yes it can be dangerous. But restricting it like some on the raccoon site seem to be OK with does NOT make them more “safe”.

[ikeo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Sugarmann

He is one of the leading voices to destroy the 2A in America. He has a long track record going back decades. I remember him from the 1980 Prop-15 campaign to freeze the number of existing handguns in California. He has received accolades from various recognized democrats. Yes, that is the same Democrat party that some of the more vocal members over on the raccoon site openly support.

As to freedom, yes it can be dangerous. But restricting it like some on the raccoon site seem to be OK with does NOT make them more “safe”.

The safety comes with making sure people who own firearms are trained and comfortable with firearms handling and usage. You guys are twisting so many things again based on your biases. I’ve trained more people and had them use more rounds in the past year than majority of people will shoot in their lifetime.

People have the right to discuss. If you’re not willing to debate or convince others of your position and instead relegate your arguments to they allow these people, WTH does your definition of freedom mean?

You guys are giving me a hard time for people discussing their positions. There’s plenty of people who opine back and forth, that’s why the site is growing and not a community of people agreeing each other all the time like many do here, while alienating a growing segment. Civility is a requirement and I’m sorry if people can’t handle another Americans position.

Ive always said this site needs to exist for the benefit of the entire space because of the differences but collaboration between communities is the only REAL way to enable change in a broader level. Many people can see what I’m trying to do, beyond the superficial tribalism, but many don’t too. I will maintain a consistent approach to see if I’m able to initiate change in a broader level but this kind of insinuation is heavily biased. I put in a lot of effort to promote awareness but you guys see the opposite, it’s funny but in the long term the results will speak for themselves. I’ve also always said members here are welcome to discuss there, newbs need guidance. People should bounce between sites and learn and teach from one another. IMHO that’s a healthy community but for whatever reason you want to believe tribalism is more appropriate. You need numbers in this state. Please look at the bigger picture. We’re growing and it’s still worth while to pick this site up but I encourage folks to be more open minded and welcoming to people and try to exercise patience.