selling a handgun (ppt) in CA

[vector16]

I sold a hangun to another person via gunshop (PPT) in California. How long am I required to hold the money in the case the buyer does not pass the background check, is it 10 days? What do I do if the 10 days has past and the buyer did not pass the background check, do I need to return the money and get the guns back or is there a "not my problem" associated with this or can I charge a fee for not notifying me they did not pass the dros with in ten days?

[Ed_Hazard]

This is all i could find on the DOJ website even close to your question.

"14) I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.
For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of$10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.


(PC section 12072(d))"

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#14

In my opinion, and remember IANAL, if you feel the buyer is of sketchy enough nature that he may fail the BC, dont sell to him. Seeing as that ship has sailed, in any sale if the buyer does not take delivery of product, a refund is due.

I'd keep 20-30% of the sale price , as would most brick and mortar shops for the hassle. In the end you will get the gun back from the FFL, and can find a legit buyer.

[vector16]

I sold the guns to a WWII vet which is also a buisness owner. The 10 day waiting period was over 5 days ago and now he is calling. This is my delema. since the BG check is 10 days does he have the right to say he wants his money back after that period if he did not pass the BG check?

[Librarian]

If the buyer fails the background check, the FFL will contact you to start your 10-day wait before returning the gun(s) to you.

If that hasn't happened, I'd say the sale is usually final at 10 days.

[orangeusa]

People lie. Even WWII vets..

There is an immediate check done before DROS is finished..... (while you are selling). I asked a gun shop how often they have a failed 10 day wait, they couldn't remember it happening. (Assuming the quick check during DROS passes)...

This might be a good question for the FFL Forum.

Good luck.

I sold the guns to a WWII vet which is also a buisness owner. The 10 day waiting period was over 5 days ago and now he is calling. This is my delema. since the BG check is 10 days does he have the right to say he wants his money back after that period if he did not pass the BG check?

[vector16]

Does the return 10 waiting period cost me money? If so do I need to retrieve the guns at all?
I had a buddy that went to buy a handgun a few years ago, he was still on probation for a dui. They called him 8 days later and told him he did not pass the DROS. He had to sacrifice $100.00 because of it.

[Hardwarejunkie]

Well, personally I don't know about calling it final after 10 days.
Due to my work schedule most of my DROS's go 14 days so him contacting you on day 15 doesn't seem too odd to me.

I think you should call the FFL and find out if he failed (it would still be your gun if he did, so I would think they can tell you that without violating his privacy) and if or when they notified him of it.
A lot of the gun shops that I've been in lately have been crazy busy so I can easily imagine something like those calls "falling through the cracks".

If I was in your situation I would not refund any money until I had my gun back.

Good Luck!

[fiddletown]

One way to approach it is to make the terms clear before the money changes hands. As long as the buyer and seller have agreed ahead of time, the terms can be --

1. You bought it and passing the background check is entirely your problem. to
   
   
2. If you fail the background check, once I get the gun back, I'll refund your money minus what I might have to pay for the transfer back to me, to
   
   
3. If your fail the background check, and ask for the money back within X days, I'll refund the money less Y% (as compensation for lost opportunity and my time and trouble), once I get my gun back, to
   
   
4. Whatever other terms buyer and seller can agree on and document.

It can save a lot of time, grief and uncertainty when doing business to anticipate possible problems and try to agree ahead of time how they will be handled if they come up.

[Silencer]

Must both parties be present in the store to do the DROS PPT forms? If so, how do I buy a handgun from a guy in Norhtern California who doesn't have an FFL or who may have an FFL? Also, does the handgun have to be in the store at the time of the DROS or can the information be phoned in to start the waiting period early if both parties don't have to be present?

[vector16]

The seller must send the the firearm through a CA FFL to a CA FFL and once the gun is in the iventory of your FFL you can begin the DROS. If the seller gives the gun to and FFL and they send it to another there are alot of fees the buyer must pay. Your best bet is to go to where the gun is, tranfer the title and do the DROS there and then have that FFL send it to your FFL where you can pick it up.

[Silencer]

The seller must send the the firearm through a CA FFL to a CA FFL and once the gun is in the iventory of your FFL you can begin the DROS. If the seller gives the gun to and FFL and they send it to another there are alot of fees the buyer must pay.

Is that the law? Because I remember 17 years ago when I was in the firearm business, I didn't have to wait to get the firearm to start the DROS.

Your best bet is to go to where the gun is, tranfer the title and do the DROS there and then have that FFL send it to your FFL where you can pick it up.

If it's sent to my FFL, is there a fee I must pay to my FFL? Do I have to show proof of DROS completition?

[vector16]

the FFL must have the gun in its inventory in order to run the DROS. If you were to purchase the the firearm and do the PPT at the sellers FFL then the gun would be yours and then you could have it sent to you to another FFL. Its like if you were to hunting in another state and you did not want tto take the gun with you on a plane, you could send it to an FFL at the location of your hunt for a small fee. I would call your local FFL to find out what the exact and cheapest procedure would be. !& years ago there was not a 10 day waiting period. I think it was 3 days. ALOT of BS has happened to our rights in 17 years my friend.

[paul0660]

Vector, sit back, you are about to learn a lot.

PPT's never hit UPS or the mail. It is face to face and costs $35 otd.

It is not necessary to have a FFL ship a gunm legally, in any case, although some FFL's demand it be sent by a FFL for exactly this circumstance. Otherwise, individuals can send guns to FFL's, and depending on the gun, to individuals.

The waiting period used to be 15 days, now it is 10, it was never 3.

You can end up with the gun and the money, and the failed buyer can sue you, or you can make a deal with him and deduct for your time and trouble. Sticky situation.

A FFL does not necessarily have to have a gun in the shop to start a dros.

[mrdd]

I sold a hangun to another person via gunshop (PPT) in California. How long am I required to hold the money in the case the buyer does not pass the background check, is it 10 days? What do I do if the 10 days has past and the buyer did not pass the background check, do I need to return the money and get the guns back or is there a "not my problem" associated with this or can I charge a fee for not notifying me they did not pass the dros with in ten days?

The PPT procedure has nothing to do with the sale (transfer of ownership).

Unless you have a contract with the buyer which says otherwise, once the money changes hands, the buyer owns it, period. If the buyer is denied by the DOJ, they will verify your status, and if you pass, the FFL will return the item to you. This will not cost you anything.

What you do in such a situation is between you and the buyer.

[vector16]

Well there you go. I just know from my own personal exp. I was always told that someone that does not have an FFL can not send a firearm through the mail to another person. They had to have it sent to an FFL and the FFL had to have the gun in inventory.
Anyway, good to know for the whole treaso I started this thread in the begining. Where were you guys 10 days ago when I was all sketchy about it?