11% excise tax

[Tarmy]

[Preston-CLB]

Went to Big-5 here in Sonora today and purchased a goodly pile of 9mm and .22 LR, and 50 rnd box of Win .22.WMR Lead Free.

My veteran's discount really helps, and no tax other than sales tax.

Newsolini and his minions sure do a good job making sure Californians get dry-buggered!
-P

[oscfifteen]

[Supersapper]

can someone ELI5 how are they allowed to charge the 11% for a sale finalized before the law is in effect just because it wasn't handed over yet? why does when it was handed over matter?

Because while the money changed hands, the "sale" isn't complete until the firearm is delivered. What's behind the scenes is this: A sale is a "contract" of sorts, and all sales in California of anything must be legal and obey the law. A "sales contract" is not completed until both sides of the contract are satisfied, ie goods and services delivered / completed and payment made in full. Until both sides are fully completed, the "sales contract" is still open.

If the law changes while a contract is still open, the contract must be modified to comply with the new law, or else is becomes null and void.

As it applies to firearms, ammo and precursor parts, the law that changed was a new "fee" (or tax, or whatever it finally turns out to be) is levied on all open and new "sales contracts" involving LGSs beginning 01JUL24. Since the firearm "sales contract" requires the following:

1. Use of an LGS,
2. A 10 day hold on all firearms,
3. acknowledgement that the LGS is not prohibited from passing on that cost to the consumer

The buyer gets socked with the 11% when they come pick up the firearm. This was why many LGSs put up signs saying DROS must be started for firearms by COB 20JUN24.

I get that this is levied on inventory the LGS has, and not the consumer directly, but it is based on gross sales, IIRC, ie it is the sales price that determines the amount of the 11%.

Since PPTs have no sales price, the 11% is based on $0. $0.00 x .11 = 0 which is why PPTs are exempt.

Yes, this is a bit overthought...read the law, though. This is why the law is written the way it is. Or at least the only way it makes any sense to me.

[bigbossman]

Will approach the end of shooting sports for the average Joe in CA.

Growing up in SoCal guns and shooting was a common past time. My dad was a truck driver. He hunted every year near Quaking Aspens.

A great, cheap sport for all.

Soon, only the moneyed will claim the shooting sports in CA.

Hell, my first rifle was purchased at the Simi swap meet...... legally. That was a loooooong time ago.

[Rocketman9mm]

can someone ELI5 how are they allowed to charge the 11% for a sale finalized before the law is in effect just because it wasn't handed over yet? why does when it was handed over matter?

[riderr]

Will out of state intra familial transfers from father to son also be exempt from the 11% excise tax? Since an out of state intra familial transfer is considered a gift, I would guess its exempt but not sure.

It's a gift, with no invoice included in the box. What's the tax base amount for it? Simple answer, it's zero

[Enthused]

Tomorrow is the final day.

GO OUT AND BUY AMMO TOMORROW.

[steelholder]

8m sure this has been confirmed already but this doesn't apply to ppt right?

[Enthused]

Joe and Gavin are directly responsible for me joining the NRA and CRPA. It has gotten to the point where I'm willing to throw in additional money (beyond just supporting the industry via gun/ammo purchases and range fees) specifically to fight against these two worthless piles of ?.

[tkxpm]

To try and help people understand this tax in simple terms, I will explain it as best I can. This is based on the CDTFA website and the two hour webinar they held for dealers on Thursday. It's probably easier to list the situations where the tax is not applicable than when it is....

First off, this is a tax on retailers, not consumers. Not sure why they made such a point of this, but they did say that retailers are allowed to require consumers to reimburse them for the tax paid and that it should be invoiced as a separate line item from the product or sales tax. I seriously doubt you will find retailer willing to eat the tax, so expect to pay it.

PPT simply transferred by an FFL is not taxed.
Sales to LEO are not taxed if the LEO fills out the CDTFA form.
Out of state sales from CA to other states are not taxed.
Sales of less than $5K per quarter by an FFL are not taxed, but once $5K threshold is reached, everything sold that quarter is taxed, so expect to pay the tax.
DROS is not taxed
Sales Tax is not taxed.


Tax is applicable to FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, and FIREARM PRECURSOR PARTS (as defined by CA DOJ).

Anything DELIVERED 7/1 or after is subject to the tax, regardless of when the consumer paid for it.

Retail sales - tax
FFL transfer - tax
Used guns - tax
Consignment guns - tax
Ammo transfers - tax
any other scenario you might come up with - tax

PS: transfer fees for guns and ammo are taxed.....

Stop ragging on Turners and other FFLS about their policies. They are following the law.

If you bought something from dealer that say "no tax if paid before 7/1", don't be surprised if they hit you up later for the tax after they get audited and are required to pay it after the fact.

Let's all just hope we get an injunction on this as quickly as possible and it goes away, but in the mean time, expect to pay the tax in most situations.

[smittty]

I am thinking that used guns will also jump up in price due to this crappy additional 11% tax, what do you say?

Thanks

Definitely, tax free ppt will be more attractive.

Buying activity usually increases before elections so this fall should see bump in ppt's.

[big blaze]

To try and help people understand this tax in simple terms, I will explain it as best I can. This is based on the CDTFA website and the two hour webinar they held for dealers on Thursday. It's probably easier to list the situations where the tax is not applicable than when it is....

First off, this is a tax on retailers, not consumers. Not sure why they made such a point of this, but they did say that retailers are allowed to require consumers to reimburse them for the tax paid and that it should be invoiced as a separate line item from the product or sales tax. I seriously doubt you will find retailer willing to eat the tax, so expect to pay it.

PPT simply transferred by an FFL is not taxed.
Sales to LEO are not taxed if the LEO fills out the CDTFA form.
Out of state sales from CA to other states are not taxed.
Sales of less than $5K per quarter by an FFL are not taxed, but once $5K threshold is reached, everything sold that quarter is taxed, so expect to pay the tax.
DROS is not taxed
Sales Tax is not taxed.


Tax is applicable to FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, and FIREARM PRECURSOR PARTS (as defined by CA DOJ).

Anything DELIVERED 7/1 or after is subject to the tax, regardless of when the consumer paid for it.

Retail sales - tax
FFL transfer - tax
Used guns - tax
Consignment guns - tax
Ammo transfers - tax
any other scenario you might come up with - tax

PS: transfer fees for guns and ammo are taxed.....

Stop ragging on Turners and other FFLS about their policies. They are following the law.

If you bought something from dealer that say "no tax if paid before 7/1", don't be surprised if they hit you up later for the tax after they get audited and are required to pay it after the fact.

Let's all just hope we get an injunction on this as quickly as possible and it goes away, but in the mean time, expect to pay the tax in most situations.

Will out of state intra familial transfers from father to son also be exempt from the 11% excise tax? Since an out of state intra familial transfer is considered a gift, I would guess its exempt but not sure.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

To try and help people understand this tax in simple terms, I will explain it as best I can. This is based on the CDTFA website and the two hour webinar they held for dealers on Thursday. It's probably easier to list the situations where the tax is not applicable than when it is....

First off, this is a tax on retailers, not consumers. Not sure why they made such a point of this, but they did say that retailers are allowed to require consumers to reimburse them for the tax paid and that it should be invoiced as a separate line item from the product or sales tax. I seriously doubt you will find retailer willing to eat the tax, so expect to pay it.

PPT simply transferred by an FFL is not taxed.
Sales to LEO are not taxed if the LEO fills out the CDTFA form.
Out of state sales from CA to other states are not taxed.
Sales of less than $5K per quarter by an FFL are not taxed, but once $5K threshold is reached, everything sold that quarter is taxed, so expect to pay the tax.
DROS is not taxed
Sales Tax is not taxed.


Tax is applicable to FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, and FIREARM PRECURSOR PARTS (as defined by CA DOJ).

Anything DELIVERED 7/1 or after is subject to the tax, regardless of when the consumer paid for it.

Retail sales - tax
FFL transfer - tax
Used guns - tax
Consignment guns - tax
Ammo transfers - tax
any other scenario you might come up with - tax

PS: transfer fees for guns and ammo are taxed.....

Stop ragging on Turners and other FFLS about their policies. They are following the law.

If you bought something from dealer that say "no tax if paid before 7/1", don't be surprised if they hit you up later for the tax after they get audited and are required to pay it after the fact.

Let's all just hope we get an injunction on this as quickly as possible and it goes away, but in the mean time, expect to pay the tax in most situations.

[big blaze]

If ammo I ordered from online doesn't show up to my local FFL till after July 1, will I have to pay the additional 11%?