Locked On Target

[fiddletown]

Diesel,

What an entertaining, emotional, disjointed and pointless rant. Do you know what a non sequitur is?

[Apec]

Very well then. I'll cease from this point on, though I won't abandon my stance.

However, I'll congratulate the gun-control advocates on criminalizing a transfer that has significantly reduced gun violence since its inception.

[therealnickb]

I don't care what anyone says, the sky is green. The sky is green. The sky is green. THE SKY IS GREEN!!!!!!!!!

THERE, I PROVED IT!

LOL.

[dieselpower]

Diesel,

What an entertaining, emotional, disjointed and pointless rant. Do you know what a non sequitur is?

+1. I had a few drinks after work last night. My points are still valid even when written in a Ted Kaczynski sort of way...LOL

[asm777]

The back and forth here has been quite entertaining.

dieselpower, I agree with your points about the way "things are supposed to be" and your assertion regarding the legal purchases w.o regard to where the money came from.

fiddletown, I agree with you that how things happen in practice and the way the law is carried out is NOT the way diesel sees the world. The ATF publications don't really help with how they describe straw purchases.

Reminds me of the difference in opinion I see here on CGN about how to talk to cops during a traffic stop. Some say "DON'T TALK TO COPS" and others say, "Be honest. Refusing to talk will cause you more problems."
- The advice of group A is based on the remote possibility that you'll run into a bad cop who will waste your time and money because they arrest you for having an AW when in fact you have a legal OLL.
- The advice of group B is based on having nothing to hide because everything in the car is legal based on all of the laws.

Like group A in the above example, fiddletown (post #55) highlighted the possibility that a DA or judge might not view a purchase on behalf of another as a gift if there was an exchange of money. Was the law intended to prosecute children buying guns as gifts for their parents using their parents money? Probably not... could a DA prosecute for it? Possibly. So instead of risking prosecution (whether warranted or not), advises against any transfer that might "smell" of a straw purchase.

Similarly, I'm interpreting that dieselpower is like group B, in that he trusts that the authorities will follow the laws (as they were intended).

Perhaps, the investigations into LEOs PPTing off-roster handguns up in NorCal indicate that it'd be prudent to follow group A's advice to avoid arrest, court, loss of time and money as a result of following actions that aren't 100% clear as per the law...

Anyway, thought I'd toss that out there and back to my

[asm777]

Actually, one other quick thought:

Are there any court precedents regarding "straw purchases"?
Or is this another of those "gray" areas that hasn't been tried in court? Similar to the "permanence" debate with regards to 10/30 pmags?

[fiddletown]

...fiddletown, I agree with you that how things happen in practice and the way the law is carried out is NOT the way diesel sees the world. ...

Yes, the way things actually are is not necessarily the way things some people think they ought to be. And one of the tricks to getting on well in the real world is to understand and deal with the way things actually are, not the way you wish they were.

[dieselpower]

The back and forth here has been quite entertaining.

dieselpower, I agree with your points about the way "things are supposed to be" and your assertion regarding the legal purchases w.o regard to where the money came from.

fiddletown, I agree with you that how things happen in practice and the way the law is carried out is NOT the way diesel sees the world. The ATF publications don't really help with how they describe straw purchases.

Reminds me of the difference in opinion I see here on CGN about how to talk to cops during a traffic stop. Some say "DON'T TALK TO COPS" and others say, "Be honest. Refusing to talk will cause you more problems."
- The advice of group A is based on the remote possibility that you'll run into a bad cop who will waste your time and money because they arrest you for having an AW when in fact you have a legal OLL.
- The advice of group B is based on having nothing to hide because everything in the car is legal based on all of the laws.

Like group A in the above example, fiddletown (post #55) highlighted the possibility that a DA or judge might not view a purchase on behalf of another as a gift if there was an exchange of money. Was the law intended to prosecute children buying guns as gifts for their parents using their parents money? Probably not... could a DA prosecute for it? Possibly. So instead of risking prosecution (whether warranted or not), advises against any transfer that might "smell" of a straw purchase.

Similarly, I'm interpreting that dieselpower is like group B, in that he trusts that the authorities will follow the laws (as they were intended).

Perhaps, the investigations into LEOs PPTing off-roster handguns up in NorCal indicate that it'd be prudent to follow group A's advice to avoid arrest, court, loss of time and money as a result of following actions that aren't 100% clear as per the law...

Anyway, thought I'd toss that out there and back to my

Not really, but I understand why you think that. Please read this slowly...
The GCA and NFA do not require employment or money.

What fiddletown is "selling" you is an agenda, propagated by anti-gun groups..the Brady camp among them. Its not the way it is in the real world at all. Its the way SOME PEOPLE WANT IT. Its the way SOME Judges twist the law. Its the way some Politicians re-write the law. Its the way some people re-word that actual law.

If you tried that BS in Texas, Arizona, Alabama, Montana...you'd get your butt handed to you by every gun owner in the State.

Did you buy that firearm?
Yes sure did.
Where did you get the money?
Say what?
Where did you get the funds for the firearms purchase?
What's that got to do with it?
We are investigating whether or not the purchase was legal, or a straw buy.
Go F yourself. My lawyer will tell you the same thing. Where I got my funds to buy the firearm is of NO CONCERN and is NOT a requirement of buying a FIREARM. Are you charging me with a crime?
Not yet.
Then go F-yourself.

This conversation wouldn't even make it past the front door of a DAs office let alone the inside of their interview room. Not even close to a Courtroom.

Now if fiddletown was your lawyer he would be telling you a different story and telling you to co-operate and try to get some plea deal....when in FACT you did NOTHING ILLEGAL when you asked another person for some cash to buy the gun. Employment is NOT a requirment..if that was the case not a single kid who gets a firearm would be allowed to get it. Not a single non-working spouse either.

Its an agenda... Its a political stance... Its anti-2A.

Actually, one other quick thought:

Are there any court precedents regarding "straw purchases"?
Or is this another of those "gray" areas that hasn't been tried in court? Similar to the "permanence" debate with regards to 10/30 pmags?

yes several people, but I have never heard of what fiddletown is telling people. Its a complete surprise to me they are even suggesting it actually.

Yes, felons caught with firearms are investigated for accomplices. Yes its illegal to buy a firearm FOR another person. yes its illegal to buy someone else's child a firearm.

This whole investigating the money trail of a legal buy is ludicrous and a complete failure to understand firearm rights and what the GCA and NFA are about.

Yes, the way things actually are is not necessarily the way things some people think they ought to be. And one of the tricks to getting on well in the real world is to understand and deal with the way things actually are, not the way you wish they were.

Please PM me your true name. I am not going to tell anyone. I just need to make sure you are NOWHERE near any case I am in. You are actually telling people this is how its done. Total BS. I have no idea how many young minds you are poisoning, but if they ever get out of this State, and find out what the real world is like... I hope they don't come looking for you.

[fiddletown]

....Please PM me your true name. I am not going to tell anyone. I just need to make sure you are NOWHERE near any case I am in. You are actually telling people this is how its done. Total BS. I have no idea how many young minds you are poisoning, but if they ever get out of this State, and find out what the real world is like... I hope they don't come looking for you.

Actually, a number of people on this board know me, know my true name, have gotten drunk with me, have had meals with me and have shot with me. If you're smart enough, you should be able to find out my true name, so consider it an intelligence test.

As far as poisoning peoples' minds, it's you who are providing misinformation that if paid attention to could get someone into a lot of trouble. You have misinterpreted and misrepresented the what the law is and how it works, and you have no professional qualifications for spreading the opinions that you are.

Your actions are irresponsible and expose unwitting readers to possible legal liability if the listen to you.

[Kestryll]

Go F yourself. My lawyer will tell you the same thing. Where I got my funds to buy the firearm is of NO CONCERN and is NOT a requirement of buying a FIREARM. Are you charging me with a crime?
Not yet.
Then go F-yourself.


Now if fiddletown was your lawyer

Its an agenda... Its a political stance... Its anti-2A.

Let's see.

Insults, personal attack, snide remarks and more.

Yup, that looks like 'GOOD BYE!!" to me!!

[orangeusa]

Um, it got personal, it got ugly and had to be stopped IMO.

.

[MASTERNOOB]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase#section_2

[fiddletown]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase#section_2

Why would you rely on some Wikipedia article when you have the the actual ATF statement set out in post 37?

See also this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=562886.