rubber bullets?

[dieselpower]

I've always wondered, what if the BG is unarmed because he knows I can't shoot him unless he is, and decides to try and rush me and get my weapon? Wouldn't that then become a life and death struggle? Would I then have legal reason to fire?

Ask George Zimmerman....

Sometimes its better to be carried by 6, than judged by 12. There is no way he is not going to prison. "The Mob rules" nowadays. The mob wants his blood, if they don't get it, they will riot. He will be having adult relations with a cellmate by Christmas .....

[voiceofreason]

Ask George Zimmerman....

Sometimes its better to be carried by 6, than judged by 12. There is no way he is not going to prison. "The Mob rules" nowadays. The mob wants his blood, if they don't get it, they will riot. He will be having adult relations with a cellmate by Christmas .....

Not necessarily.

[voiceofreason]

what about the good guy? He can't sell his house because no one wants to buy it now, and he has a daily reminder, in the sanctity of his own home, of the worst moment of his life, he mentioned the wearing impact it has had on him having to see the spot on the floor where someone died

Reminds me of a person that won't use a gun in SD because the gunshot would damage their hearing.

Yes, it sucks that an intruder is already in your home, no you didn't do anything to deserve this, but... it's already a lose/lose situation.

Figure out your priorities and take care of the problems from most to least important. Get through with your loved ones alive before worrying about blood stains on the carpet later on. If you're not focused and ready, it may be your kids' blood that stains the carpet that night.

Like a shooting that occurs in a parking lot, you may face a civil lawsuit or retaliation by his set at a later time... if you focus on that instead of the situation at hand, you may not make it to "a later time".

Get some training with a reputable trainer, learn the legal aspects of shoot/no shoot (reading posts on a forum board is a start, but it may lead you astray as well), decide BEFORE the situation happens what you can and are willing to do and whether or not you're willing to face the consequences of using a firearm in self defense.

[voiceofreason]

The rest of the website is good as well, this guy used to work at Lethal Force Institute with Massad Ayood, someone that knows a thing or two about legal defensive firearms usage:

http://www.spw-duf.info/force.html

[tenpercentfirearms]

I've always wondered, what if the BG is unarmed because he knows I can't shoot him unless he is, and decides to try and rush me and get my weapon? Wouldnt that then become a life and death struggle? Would I then have legal reason to fire?

You might want to actually read the penal code.

198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury.

What that says is if you know the person unlawfully and forcibly enters your home, you are presumed to have a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury.

If you break into my home (you just didn't walk in because I left my door unlocked) I will shoot you whether you have a weapon or not. The penal code is clear that your actions of breaking into my house gives me a reasonable fear of death or GBI. That means if you die after I shoot you in the chest to stop your actions, that is justifiable homicide.

CA Penal Code is actually pretty clear and will protect you. If they break in, you can shoot them whether they have a weapon or not. The key is they have to break in and it can't be a family member or your roommate.

[gatesbox]

This seems like an opportunity to express my dislike of all Less than lethal weapons. In law enforcement I fear that it has given LEOs a very painful and possibly lethal alternative. We have witnessed many more casual pepperspray incidents, I have seen video of LEO aiming gas canister launchers directly at people (gas canisters are activated by small explosives) and this doesn't even begin to mention the tales of people being tazed at ball games, movie theaters, or other occasions. before LTL you had to make a choice, shoot or talk.

This is true for civilians even more so as civilians may not have any training in proper use of LTL. Shoot or don't shoot, shoot or run, shoot or hide in defensive position until LEO. But by no means turn a gun into an airsoft pistol...

[Casual_Shooter]

Would rubber bullets defuse, slow down, or stop a situation as described in that thread?

Possibly. Perhaps you could also try to reason with the person who just broke into your house.

For me, I'm not willing to take that chance.

[fiddletown]

...what about the good guy? He can't sell his house because no one wants to buy it now, and he has a daily reminder, in the sanctity of his own home, of the worst moment of his life, he mentioned the wearing impact it has had on him having to see the spot on the floor where someone died

The issue is that less lethal munitions are likely to be less effective in stopping a threat. If you are truly at risk and fail to stop the attack, you will be the one dead or seriously injured.

Note that police when deploying less lethal munitions against a truly potentially lethal threat do so only when there is back-up present with an immediately available lethal force option.

[Markus]

It just seems like a losing proposition if you use nonlethal ammo... If you shoot him and he lives you probably will get sued and there is still the chance that you may kill him with your nonlethal ammo.

[Librarian]

It just seems like a losing proposition if you use nonlethal ammo... If you shoot him and he lives you probably will get sued and there is still the chance that you may kill him with your nonlethal ammo.

Agreed.

To use a firearm in self defense is to use 'lethal force'. It is critical to decide if you can actually kill another human being before you ever buy a gun for self defense - because it's far too late to evaluate the pros and cons while an attacker is in your bedroom.

[Divernhunter]

If you only hurt them you will probably be sued and loose your house and everything else. Then the lawyer should be thrashed for filing. But it is too late
If you kill them end of the trouble of them, breaking into other homes(maybe hurting others), wasting money on lawsuits, the state wasting money on a trial, wasting 12 peoples time for a jury, making some sumbag lawyers a bunch of money(again probably state taxes paid) and IF convited us paying for their state room and board plus apeals.

A guy was murdered by his adult son just out of prison with a pair of sizzors in the house next to mine and they had no trouble selling it.

If they break into my home they are dead. End of story. I will be happy to continue to live in it. I worked too darn hard to have what I have. I am too old and broken down to run, not permitted to after major back and knee surgery, and a hip replacement, so I will just kill them. Yes I can do so emotionally, have the means and proper mind set. If someone does not then they should not until they do also. If they get hurt or die because of it then that is their choice/problem. Souds like I may be a cold person but that is just the way it is in life and this type of thing. You can choose to be a victim or not.

[CSACANNONEER]

It just seems like a losing proposition if you use nonlethal ammo... If you shoot him and he lives you probably will get sued and there is still the chance that you may kill him with your nonlethal ammo.

Rubber bullets are not "nonlethal". They are LESS LETHAL but, still lethal. Even blanks can and have killed people. The mere fact they are fired from a firearm means that you are using lethal force.

[Chrushev]

Load up a shotgun with salt... that wont kill em.. but will stop em

[Bt Doctur]

After reading these posts
I have come to the conclusion that most of you posters SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS
If your not ready ,willing, and able to STOP a threat to you, your wife,or your children
you have a big problem. You use a home defense weapon to STOP THE THREAT, no more,no less. 1 bullet or 10 bullets,dosent matter.
When the BG breaks into you home, to commit rape, murder, mayhem, try offering him a cup of coffe or a beer. Ask him to stab you where is wont hurt much.Oh yes, also tell him what rooms you family is in, save him the trouble of looking for them and damaging your home by breaking down the doors.
Home defense, Castle Doctrine, etc. are meant to protect YOU the victim, not the BG who entered your home.
You and your family DEAD, or a DEAD BAD BUY, You decide.

[Rockit]

Load up a shotgun with salt... that wont kill em.. but will stop em

Or not. More than likely just piss 'em off more. I've been hit w/rock salt. 14 years old MXing a moped on a golf course. Ya it hurt, but if I was anything more than a dumb kid, it wouldn't stop me.
Shoot to stop the threat. Not your fault they choose to break into your house. Nothing to feel bad about.