Anyone consider a fire sprinkler for their safe?

[NeenachGuy]

I do this for a living. On residential there should be NO shut off valve. It should tee off after the meter, prior to house shut off.

Yeah, the valve I was talking about is (i'm not sure what it's called) the type of valve that prevents the fire sprinkler system from becoming depressurized in the event that the water pressure off the water main drops to zero. Apologies for not being more specific in my earlier response.

[Carsgunsandchics]

Yeah, the valve I was talking about is (i'm not sure what it's called) the type of valve that prevents the fire sprinkler system from becoming depressurized in the event that the water pressure off the water main drops to zero. Apologies for not being more specific in my earlier response.

An inline check valve. Your system would only spurt and then piddle if you loose city water pressure.

But with the newer restrictions with water systems you'll also have to install a double check valve to keep your water from returning to the city side in the event of a city loss of water pressure. At least that's what the requirements are getting to be around here for residential fire sprinkler systems as of the last 5 years, not just regulated to commercial properties anymore.

[scotthmt]

Run it with cpvc, install would be quick and simple. i install fire sprinklers for a living. And no way would i do a halon system in a house, that is just absurd. I'd figure some way of being notified if the system does go off, or you will have tons of water damage. Most residential systems are to save life, not property, if a sprinkler is going off the water coming out of it is going to mess things up no doubt.

[Rob454]

it is highly recomended you never touch your sprinkler system. i deal with them all the time installing alarms in houses. we had a guy drill through one and my company bought a house. resi sprinklers are running at 600 psi and it will be a very bad day if you goof something up and it breaks when your not home. strange enough those super old school glass grenades is what i keep near my safe. yes they were made in 1910 but when i threw one in a firepit in my backyard the fire was no more. some have a heat activated trigger kinda like a mouse trap that breaks the glass in the case of heat. google glass fire grenade and you can find them.

No normal sprinkler systems run at 600 psi. Most residentials that are big enough I think over 2500 sq ft or somewhere around there are required to have sprinkler systems these days. I am pretty sure its been a requirement for 12-15 years or so. And most residential have a specific ORANGE colored plastic pipe they do not use steel pipe.
Commercial does not use galvanized pipe ( well maybe some really really old buildings but I have never seen galvanized fire sprinkler piping. They use black pipe I believe schedule 40 but I am not sure on the type but its NOT galvanized. average PSI for a sprinkler system is about 55 PSI and some are up to 80 PSI but that depends on what the city water pressure is. Ive seen it as low as 35-45 but the fire inspectors get pizzed when they see that. In some cases the building has to install a jockey pump and a main pump to bring the PSI up and thats usually because they have to fed water up to higher floors ( highrise) single story buildings are not required to have pumps. 9 at least not normally ) The few times i have seen higher PSI ratings is for highrise buildings but never 600 PSI. some pre-action or Ansul systems have some high PSI at the bottles.

OP
if you do want a sprinkler in the closet then just tap it off your main line to the house after the meter but before the house shut off. This way the pipe always has pressure so if you go on vacation and shut off the house water line the sprinkler will still activate if there is a fire. You can always put a water flow switch somewhere inline and if you have a security system you can have the switch monitored for fire activation

[chiselchst]

OP
if you do want a sprinkler in the closet then just tap it off your main line to the house after the meter but before the house shut off. This way the pipe always has pressure so if you go on vacation and shut off the house water line the sprinkler will still activate if there is a fire. You can always put a water flow switch somewhere inline and if you have a security system you can have the switch monitored for fire activation

(is there normally a tie in prior to the main shut off?) I guess it would have to be valved. Unless one was going to do a freeze isolation, or a hot tap)

This I can understand, but to not have an isolation valve on the line to the sprinkler I do not. A ball valve could be used on the line to the sprinkler, and have a car seal or wire tie to keep it open. But I sure would want the ability to isolate that section with the sprinkler head...

What temperature (and color sprinkler fuse) are the correct temperature for resi use?

I like the additional drywall idea. That's what I did on the sides, back, top & bottom of the closet my safe is in...3 layers on the botom.

[Carsgunsandchics]

The shut off would be at the water meter vs just above ground house feed. This way if say you were doing some plumbing repairs and had the water shut off to the house and caught the house on fire with the torch while sweating copper the fire sprinkler system would still work.

As for head temps, usual starting temp is 155degree or 165 depending on brand, and they go up from there. Along with application of upright, pendant or sidewall.

[russ69]

I have a couple of thoughts for the thinking man. First, the chances of a house fire are extremely unlikely. It's a rare occurrence. You might want to concentrate on other issues such as break-in, concealment and alarm.
The other issue to think about is water in and around your gun safe. Wherever there is water there is a chance for leakage. The risk of a sprinkler over your safe may be bigger than the risk of fire.
Your best bet might be a fire alarm that calls your phone, so you might have a chance to contain the fire. In the case of a total house fire loss, the heat is so intense that anything in your safe will be worthless anyway.

[postal]

I'm not a "plumber" but I've done minor plumbing work before. When I moved into the house I had to replace the regulator, shut off valve to a new ball valve, then replace the water heater. I can open that stuff up and install a "T" before the regulator for an additional line for sprinkler if I choose to.

This stuff is not in the near future- just had the idea for a while and wanted to hash out if it was even feasible.

Thanks again everyone- very good info.

Good points Russ.

However, my understanding of burglery alarms, is they can only monitor doors and windows with a large dog with dog door- no motion sensors, or ineffectual motion sensors because of a large dog. A little lap dog, motion sensors still work. Of course an alarm would still give the fire monitoring capability.

Water damage to the contents of the safe are very real considerations. If the sprinkler system works and keeps the safe cool, the fire seals would never expand.... allowing even more water inside the safe. I think about when the safe is installed, (in a closet) removing the carpet, making a solid concrete raised platform of about 6" high for the safe to sit on. The safe would be bolted to the concrete platform and the underlying foundation, but it would raise the safe up above the flood of water.

[theduece]

(is there normally a tie in prior to the main shut off?) I guess it would have to be valved. Unless one was going to do a freeze isolation, or a hot tap)

This I can understand, but to not have an isolation valve on the line to the sprinkler I do not. A ball valve could be used on the line to the sprinkler, and have a car seal or wire tie to keep it open. But I sure would want the ability to isolate that section with the sprinkler head...

What temperature (and color sprinkler fuse) are the correct temperature for resi use?

I like the additional drywall idea. That's what I did on the sides, back, top & bottom of the closet my safe is in...3 layers on the botom.

Myself and anyone else who does sprinks will tell you to not have a valve installed because valves get turned off. They get forgotten off, installing sprinklers without water is worthless. Well that and it is code in most locales that the feed source does not have a shut-off. The most commonly used color(temp) is a red bulb. That is 155* +-.

The shut off would be at the water meter vs just above ground house feed. This way if say you were doing some plumbing repairs and had the water shut off to the house and caught the house on fire with the torch while sweating copper the fire sprinkler system would still work.

As for head temps, usual starting temp is 155degree or 165 depending on brand, and they go up from there. Along with application of upright, pendant or sidewall.

This is good advice IMHO.

Russ you are probably correct. Where I live the area was destroyed by wildfires a few years back. Alot of people knew me and started asking to get estimates for whole house systems. Problem was the fire that had scared them into thinking they needed sprinklers would not have been stopped by them. 70+mph wind driven inferno... When I tried explaining this to them they looked at me as if I was an alien, could not comprehend that I did not want to install sprinklers in thier house. Not because they don't work, only because what they were trying to protect against could not have been stopped by residential sprinklers. Some listened others called different companies.

If you want to buy yourself some time during common house fires sprinklers will work. If you place your safe in a firesafe room(firerated drywall etc), limit the amount of combustible materials stored in there(clothes, carpeting, etc), a sprinkler would greatly improve the chances of the contents of the safe.

[Rob454]

(is there normally a tie in prior to the main shut off?) I guess it would have to be valved. Unless one was going to do a freeze isolation, or a hot tap)

This I can understand, but to not have an isolation valve on the line to the sprinkler I do not. A ball valve could be used on the line to the sprinkler, and have a car seal or wire tie to keep it open. But I sure would want the ability to isolate that section with the sprinkler head...

What temperature (and color sprinkler fuse) are the correct temperature for resi use?

I like the additional drywall idea. That's what I did on the sides, back, top & bottom of the closet my safe is in...3 layers on the botom.

Most residentials have two shut off valves. One at the street after the meter and one at the incoming line prior to entering the dwelling. You would T tap right between the main shut off and the house shut off. This way if you go on vacation and shut off the water to the house you still have city water pressure going in to the line for the safe/sprinkler. If youhave a security system you can add a tamper valve inline also for shutoff and have the tamper and water flow switch monitored for trouble or fire.

There are many different sprinkler heads with different release mechanisms. I believe you would most likely need the orange or red ( 135* 155*) which is more than sufficient for your residential needs. Remember depending on where you place the head ( wall or ceiling ) you need to use different heads due to spray pattern differences from wall to ceiling mount.

I have a couple of thoughts for the thinking man. First, the chances of a house fire are extremely unlikely. It's a rare occurrence. .

No its not a rare occurence. houses catch fire all the time. Last week ( no joke) 5 am there was a condo fire close to my house basically a few streets down. Houses catch fire all the time.

However, my understanding of burglery alarms, is they can only monitor doors and windows with a large dog with dog door- no motion sensors, or ineffectual motion sensors because of a large dog. A little lap dog, motion sensors still work. Of course an alarm would still give the fire monitoring capability.

Well you would be wrong. Burg systems can be used to monitor a lot of different things and do a lot of different things besides doors and windows. The old door and window 4-6 zone panels are still used for your basic "free" install offers by alarm companies but they make smart systems now that can have 200 different monitoring points that can be used to do a LOT of different things. Look up Radionics 9112 systems well now Bosch 9112 systems. You will be surprised what those can do. if you want see some crazy cool stuff go look up DSC systems or heck some Honeywell stuff is pretty good these days also. Burg systems have come along way its all a matter of how much money you have to spend. I have done some pretty amazing security systems but those were all ground up installs where I had the budget to go hog wild. In most cases people simply do the basics. #Even a basic alarm panel can be programmed to work with a waterflow and tamper switch. And no there is no magic most of it is in the programming