Anyone consider a fire sprinkler for their safe?

[chiselchst]

I smiled when I saw this post!

Yes! I even bought a couple of commercial heat-operating fire sprinklers. The color of the heat sensitive fuse determines the temperature at which it melts, allowing water to spray. My plan was to mount one above the safe. Haven't gotten around to it, partially because I have a safe that will survive a home burn down.

Had second thoughts also, re water damage...and I also double sheet-rocked the closest sides & roof, and put 3 layers down under the safe, to help.

Might still do it. I like overkill for important stuff

[wjc]

Maybe a Halon system but I wouldn't want to introduce water to my guns. Might spring a leak and be a while before you noticed and then you have a pile of rusty guns. Might as well let them burn and file an insurance claim.

EDIT:
OVER, not in. Oops.

^^ this would be a better idea.

We used Halon in computer labs when water would have destroyed the contents of the room.

Halon is kind of expensive but it would be cool if someone developed a small system. Something like a small tank and discharger that can be triggered by heat.

[theduece]

Sprinklers are a great idea. When we built our home, we installed fire sprinklers in every room, and one of the sprinklers is directly above the gun safe. Just make sure you do it right... The sprinkler system needs to have its own connection to the water main coming into the house, and it needs to have a valve that maintains the proper pressure in the event that the water main is busted.

I do this for a living. On residential there should be NO shut off valve. It should tee off after the meter, prior to house shut off.

FIL is building a new house and apparently by code sprinklers are required over a certain sq footage. They're all over the house including in the safe closet.

Yep the square footage varies by locallity.

Coverage for a complete house will get prohibitve.

if you do it, you had better run piping that can handle the heat from a fire. I think most sprinkler systems use galv piping, since copper has a lower melting point. a sprinkler does no good if water cant get to it. Another idea would firewall the room it is in, I beleive a 2 hr firewall for a garage is 2 sheets of 5/8 drywall, that might buy some time for the room the safe is in

Copper is an approved method of piping believe it or not so is cpvc pipe. The water filled pipe will not melt... If it does you have more problems.

^^ this would be a better idea.

We used Halon in computer labs when water would have destroyed the contents of the room.

Halon is kind of expensive but it would be cool if someone developed a small system. Something like a small tank and discharger that can be triggered by heat.

They make small halon systems for auto racing and boats. It will not lower the temperature though.

IMHO if I am understanding the op correctly, his intention is outside the safe dropping water on it to keep it cool. The sprinkler will do this.

[The King]

Consider placing the safe in your garage and tapping into the water heater plumbing.
Cheap & dirty. And reversable.

Though I would like "TheDuece"s comments.

[blakdawg]

I've worked in Halon-equipped computer rooms - my understanding was that the Halon is intended to suppress the initial outbreak of a fire, but isn't going to be effective protection if the area to be protected is adjacent to a building that's otherwise already on fire.

So the Halon might be nice if you think your guns (or your goldenrod, or whatever) are going to *start* a fire - but I am skeptical that it would be a big help if the rest of your house is already burning, as the Halon is likely to dissipate pretty quickly, and it works by displacing oxygen which would otherwise allow a fire to burn.

The bottled water on top is an interesting idea - we all ought to have a lot of bottled water available anyway, in case of <pick your own scenario>, but storing it on top of the safe gets you a free fire protection bonus.

[hunteran]

I've worked in Halon-equipped computer rooms - my understanding was that the Halon is intended to suppress the initial outbreak of a fire, but isn't going to be effective protection if the area to be protected is adjacent to a building that's otherwise already on fire.

Yeah, a Halon system isn't going to do jack to keep your guns cool. What you're really looking for is a way to slow down the heat transfer. The two big ways you could do this is slowing the conduction of heat through your safe (insulation) or using some sort of evaporating coolant to absorb the heat before your safe (and your guns) absorbs the heat (which buys you time). I don't think the bottles of water on top would help all that much (because once the bottle melts most of that water is going to end up on the floor where it won't do much good). I think your best bet would be to have some sort of system that hoses down the outside of your safe with a ****load of water.

[theduece]

You are correct. Halon will extinguish a fire inside of a safe. It will not extinguish a house fire. Unless you have a system throughout the entire house. It will not cool down the temperature. It works by displacing oxygen.


In all reality it is a simple system to design(the sprinkler option). All you need to do is tap into your plumbing, run a 1/2" or larger line over to your safe, install a sprinkler in the end.

Leaks do happen but are rare, almost every large commercial building has several sprinkler systems in it. Just make sure you don't get your water turned off and yours will work.

[greezy]

it is highly recomended you never touch your sprinkler system. i deal with them all the time installing alarms in houses. we had a guy drill through one and my company bought a house. resi sprinklers are running at 600 psi and it will be a very bad day if you goof something up and it breaks when your not home. strange enough those super old school glass grenades is what i keep near my safe. yes they were made in 1910 but when i threw one in a firepit in my backyard the fire was no more. some have a heat activated trigger kinda like a mouse trap that breaks the glass in the case of heat. google glass fire grenade and you can find them.

[theduece]

No they do not operate at anything near 600psi. At most they are tested at 200psi. They operate at the exact same pressure you have at your water meter.


I would not recommend anyone mess with thier existing system, only in case a fire ever happened. Someone may or may not get upset.

[Safety1st]

Seems the easiest and cheapest thing to do is build a thick drywall storage closet. Its best if the heat never gets to your safe.

[postal]

I'm planning on getting a Sturdy Fire Lined safe in the future. Best bang for the buck I hear.

As others mentioned, Halon will snuff out a fire in a contained room- does nothing for the heat though. I doubt halon is even legal in a residence.... It will kill you faster than a fire and smoke would- I had Halon systems in my computer room in the military.

Good info TheDuece- thanks for your input.

My "day job" does require me to work with thickwall copper piping once in a while- I'm not worried about installing a single line with perhaps 2 heads on it- (more heads = more water flow- cooling the pipe better, and cooling the safe better. Or would that matter at all, tapping off the water before the regulator for full pressure?

As to Jerry rigging a "temporary- unapproved- un inspected - un permitted... easily to remove setup" is a simple thing for me to accomplish. I would need real fire sprinkler heads for all metal construction- naturally. Which means I could consider leave out the valve, and have the system pressurized all the time. The down side of a constantly pressurized system, is if there is a leak and it floods the house without a fire.... then dealing with insurance and my "jerry rigged" unapproved system....

The guy living on the boat.... in case of fire... drop safe through bottom of hull.... Thats why Navy Nuke boats have the reactors at the very bottom of the ship- in case of meltdown, they melt right out the bottom of the ship.

For the poster that said since I dont have a safe, I'm irresponsible.... No kids in the house, the live in GF knows how to use all my guns, and I dont think my dog, or her cat will have a ND... Currently they just arent protected from fire or theft besides my insurance policy. And that safe I want is beyond my finances at this time- but it's "on the list" of things.

[1911su16b870]

Place your emergency water supply plastic bottles/crates on top of your safe. A friend and calgunner told me this and IMO the best, simplest solution.

[The Gleam]

My "day job" does require me to work with thickwall copper piping once in a while- I'm not worried about installing a single line with perhaps 2 heads on it- (more heads = more water flow- cooling the pipe better, and cooling the safe better. Or would that matter at all, tapping off the water before the regulator for full pressure?

As to Jerry rigging a "temporary- unapproved- un inspected - un permitted... easily to remove setup" is a simple thing for me to accomplish. I would need real fire sprinkler heads for all metal construction- naturally. Which means I could consider leave out the valve, and have the system pressurized all the time. The down side of a constantly pressurized system, is if there is a leak and it floods the house without a fire.... then dealing with insurance and my "jerry rigged" unapproved system....

The guy living on the boat.... in case of fire... drop safe through bottom of hull....

Good ideas. But also think "Earthquake Sprinkler Leakage" or the system leaking from pressure over time. Be sure the system you install is not simply jerry-rigged, and that the room for the safe won't fill up with water to the point it leaks into the safe causing water damage.

I supposed that's better than fire damage, but if you're gone for several hours or even a few days, you would have a mess on your hands for the system breakage or a mild earthquake that shakes it apart, doing little if any other damage to your home.

If you install a sprinkler system in any building, be sure you earthquake coverage includes damages for "Earthquake Sprinkler Leakage" however for them to cover it you have to have a code-approved and inspected system, not jerry rigged.

[Carsgunsandchics]

it is highly recomended you never touch your sprinkler system. i deal with them all the time installing alarms in houses. we had a guy drill through one and my company bought a house. resi sprinklers are running at 600 psi and it will be a very bad day if you goof something up and it breaks when your not home. strange enough those super old school glass grenades is what i keep near my safe. yes they were made in 1910 but when i threw one in a firepit in my backyard the fire was no more. some have a heat activated trigger kinda like a mouse trap that breaks the glass in the case of heat. google glass fire grenade and you can find them.

600 psi dude whoever told you that is on crack! 200psi+ for hydrotesting for new or updated systems. Some places run 125psi with a pump. As for the old fire grenades caution (carbon tetrachloride) is some bad stuff. As for running a sprinkler off of domestic water, it's old tech and works kinda. But there is no notification typically and can just like regular plumbing leak with no idea it's leaking.

Fire sprinklers don't work like in the movies, the whole system doesn't just start spraying when an alarm goes off unless your in a very high risk place like a chem lab or volatile location. And even then it requires a series of events before the water even starts to run.

The cheapest way I've seen protect a safe is to add to the outside. A couple layers of 5/8" sheetrock, or firewrap.

[theduece]

As others mentioned, Halon will snuff out a fire in a contained room- does nothing for the heat though. I doubt halon is even legal in a residence.... It will kill you faster than a fire and smoke would- I had Halon systems in my computer room in the military.

My "day job" does require me to work with thickwall copper piping once in a while- I'm not worried about installing a single line with perhaps 2 heads on it- (more heads = more water flow- cooling the pipe better, and cooling the safe better. Or would that matter at all, tapping off the water before the regulator for full pressure?

As to Jerry rigging a "temporary- unapproved- un inspected - un permitted... easily to remove setup" is a simple thing for me to accomplish. I would need real fire sprinkler heads for all metal construction- naturally. Which means I could consider leave out the valve, and have the system pressurized all the time. The down side of a constantly pressurized system, is if there is a leak and it floods the house without a fire.... then dealing with insurance and my "jerry rigged" unapproved system....

That is good info on halon. I would not put it in my house. If your concern is flooding the house, would you repair your own water piping? If not then don't do it. If you would it is the same material.

As for the heads just follow the specs on whichever you get and for your intended purpose you should be fine. The heads dont differentiate between metal, wood, or concrete. They are based upon hazard classification. Meaning the distance from head to ceiling, inbetween heads, etc... If your only installing 1 a 1/2" water line copper should flow enough. If your doing 2 or more go 3/4" and up.