Something that does not seem 100% kosher, your thoughts?

[CWM4A1]

I seen one of the "OLL" the other day, but not sure if it can even qualify as OLL. Explanation below:

The rifle in question is one of those Evan's seal mag Bushmaster XM15-E2S, but the owner decided to remove the weld-up mag well, and put what I think is a prince 50 mag-lock kit on it with a fixed 10rd bushmaster 10-20 mag.

Since XM15-E2S is listed on the DOJ ban list, my understanding is once the mag well is removed it can no longer be considered as OLL but a full blown AW receiver because of the name and model. What are your thoughts? I expressed by opinion but the owner did not seen convinced.

[DedEye]

I seen one of the "OLL" the other day, but not sure if it can even qualify as OLL. Explanation below:

The rifle in question is one of those Evan's seal mag Bushmaster XM15-E2S, but the owner decided to remove the weld-up mag well, and put what I think is a prince 50 mag-lock kit on it with a fixed 10rd bushmaster 10-20 mag.

Since XM15-E2S is listed on the DOJ ban list, my understanding is once the mag well is removed it can no longer be considered as OLL but a full blown AW receiver because of the name and model. What are your thoughts? I expressed by opinion but the owner did not seen convinced.

If it was in fact an XM15 and not the sealed magwell Bushmaster Carbon 15, then it would be illegal either way unless it were already registered.

However, if it were a Carbon 15 with an open magwell and Prince50 kit, that's legal.

[CWM4A1]

No, it's not the carbon-15. It's the forged frame XM15-E2S, with the mark on the mag-well shows original weld that was done by Evan's removed.

Apparently, Iggy gaved Evan's a thumbs up that if they weld-up the mag well of a Colt or Bushy, or any listed receiver, then it's okay and no longer considered as AW...

ETA: Borrow the Iggy letter to Evan's link from Monsterman: letter

[DedEye]

No, it's not the carbon-15. It's the forged frame XM15-E2S, with the mark on the mag-well shows that original weld that was done by Evan's removed.

Apparently, Iggy gaved Evan's a thumbs up that if they weld-up the mag well of a Colt or Bushy, or any listed receiver, then it's okay and no longer considered as AW...

ETA: Borrow the Iggy letter to Evan's link from Monsterman: letter

I remember something from the beginning of the year (one of the New Year's surprises) about "named" lowers being legal if they were welded, but don't know the details. I'm sure Bill will be along shortly to answer.

[bohoki]

this doesnt make sense how could the doj say that if you weld in a fixed mag it would make it legal they are exceeding their authority the oll issue needs a clear ruling especially the bullet button

it took years for people to accept the 922r compliant imports that were only legal if you only use magazines with made in america followers and floorplates

the cadoj must accept the off list lowers with fixed magazines or list them as assault weapons allowing us to register them

and thus when they ban the larry-15 a year later the curly-15 will come out allowing a whole other batch of people to register them then the moe-15

they need to **** or get off the pot

we need a manufacturer to step up and try selling some bullet button equiped fixed mag rifles so we can get a clear opinion

[ar15barrels]

It sounds like the guy created an illegal AW to me as the gun is listed by name, not registered and not exempted as originally sold by Evan so the Evan's approval letter would NOT protect the owner of the rifle should he be caught with it.

I bet the owner of this rifle is just pissed off at the amount of money he paid Evan for the rifle.

[PIRATE14]

Well it's a listed Rifle and must be registered........there are DOJ letters stating that even a listed rcvr is a AW.........but this goes against the signed letters that Evan was using........

Of course, there was much grindin of teeth over this debacle.......now, if noticed Evans no longer does COLTs or BM.....and is using Smiths right now......hhhmmm....

[MonsterMan]

So here is the story with Evans Gunsmithing/GB Sales. They got permission to do their modification on AR lowers from Iggy (wrongfully). They chose Colts and Bushmasters to modify. It was brought to the DOJ's attn that they were modifying "named" lowers (and you can't take a named lower out of AW status by making it CA legal, once named, always named) and the DOJ has now made Evan get a Manufacturing license so he can now technically rename the lower and it is a OLL now. Even if you open the magwell, it still is technically a OLL because he has taken it, modified it and sold it as a EGSM lower that happened to have been a listed lower at one time.

This is from what I hear anyway.

Bottom line is that they got caught modifying listed lowers and DOJ fast tracked them through the system to get them their manufacturing license so they can "rename" these listed rifles and make them OLL's. Or so Evan will tell you.

I have a question though, if they have a manufacturing license that allows them to buy "listed" lowers and modify them to be "Evans OLL's", then why are they no long making Colts and Bushmasters? They only do true OLL's now. If you have noticed on their site, they are now doing only Smith & Wesson's AR's and their "listed" stuff is "not currently available". What does that tell you?

Does something smell fishy around here?

[bohoki]

So here is the story with Evans Gunsmithing/GB Sales. They got permission to do their modification on AR lowers from Iggy (wrongfully). They chose Colts and Bushmasters to modify. It was brought to the DOJ's attn that they were modifying "named" lowers (and you can't take a named lower out of AW status by making it CA legal, once named, always named) and the DOJ has now made Evan get a Manufacturing license so he can now technically rename the lower and it is a OLL now. Even if you open the magwell, it still is technically a OLL because he has taken it, modified it and sold it as a EGSM lower that happened to have been a listed lower at one time.

This is from what I hear anyway.

Bottom line is that they got caught modifying listed lowers and DOJ fast tracked them through the system to get them their manufacturing license so they can "rename" these listed rifles and make them OLL's. Or so Evan will tell you.

I have a question though, if they have a manufacturing license that allows them to buy "listed" lowers and modify them to be "Evans OLL's", then why are they no long making Colts and Bushmasters? They only do true OLL's now. If you have noticed on their site, they are now doing only Smith & Wesson's AR's and their "listed" stuff is "not currently available". What does that tell you?

Does something smell fishy around here?

yea first off i think the atf would have a bit of say when it comes to renaming a firearm one manufacturer cannot take anothers and modify its name or serial number that is defacing firearm identification marks even adding but a character to the name renaming it is the same as grinding off a serial number

[DedEye]

So here is the story with Evans Gunsmithing/GB Sales. They got permission to do their modification on AR lowers from Iggy (wrongfully). They chose Colts and Bushmasters to modify. It was brought to the DOJ's attn that they were modifying "named" lowers (and you can't take a named lower out of AW status by making it CA legal, once named, always named) and the DOJ has now made Evan get a Manufacturing license so he can now technically rename the lower and it is a OLL now. Even if you open the magwell, it still is technically a OLL because he has taken it, modified it and sold it as a EGSM lower that happened to have been a listed lower at one time.

This is from what I hear anyway.

Bottom line is that they got caught modifying listed lowers and DOJ fast tracked them through the system to get them their manufacturing license so they can "rename" these listed rifles and make them OLL's. Or so Evan will tell you.

I have a question though, if they have a manufacturing license that allows them to buy "listed" lowers and modify them to be "Evans OLL's", then why are they no long making Colts and Bushmasters? They only do true OLL's now. If you have noticed on their site, they are now doing only Smith & Wesson's AR's and their "listed" stuff is "not currently available". What does that tell you?

Does something smell fishy around here?

That was the story I remembered hearing; thanks MM.

[MonsterMan]

yea first off i think the atf would have a bit of say when it comes to renaming a firearm one manufacturer cannot take anothers and modify its name or serial number that is defacing firearm identification marks even adding but a character to the name renaming it is the same as grinding off a serial number

I guess because they have a Manufacturers license they can buy a firearm, modify it and then resell it under their new name and serial #. Or so they say. But you are right, an average person can not just grind off a serial number.

[ar15barrels]

I guess because they have a Manufacturers license they can buy a firearm, modify it and then resell it under their new name and serial #. Or so they say. But you are right, an average person can not just grind off a serial number.

An 07 FFL holder can do just that.
There is a form for it, but other than filling out the form, no big deal when you have the good graces of "the man"...

[tgriffin]

What this guy has allegedy done is big big big no-no from just about every angle, and I would say without a shadow of a doubt he has indeed created through his actions an illegal AW.

[maxicon]

While not directly applicable, the BATFE has the stance on full auto receivers that they can never be made legal - once a machinegun, always a machinegun. Even if you weld it up so that it can't function in full-auto mode, they won't allow it.

That's federal, of course, and doesn't apply to California's mish-mash of laws. There's nothing in the current body of Cali law that I know of that says you can or can't re-brand a named AW with the right licenses.

Sounds like a case for the 58 DAs!

[CWM4A1]

As far as I can remember when I see that gun, it's probably one of the earlier ones by Evan's because I did not recall anything that shows Evan's MFG model or new serial number, just Bushmaster's logo and their serial number. I told him it might be wise stay safe and just go buy a Double Star, STAG, any of the real deal OLL. Transfer everything over to the new lower to stay on the relatively safe side.

It's a stupid law but we still have to follow it. I'd hate to see what happen to BWO happen to this guy. With Bushmaster make and model, DA and DOJ really can nail him to the wall on AW charges; and since he open up the magwell Evan will claim this is none of their business even if this guy wants to drag them in.