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  • WokMaster1
    Part time Emperor
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Mar 2006
    • 5436

    Have you read this?

    It's probably been covered but it's pretty interesting.



    Grad student suspended after pro gun rights e-mail
    Posted by Declan McCullagh
    A Minnesota university has suspended one of its graduate students who sent two e-mail messages to school officials supporting gun rights.

    Hamline University also said that master's student Troy Scheffler, who owns a firearm, would be barred from campus and must receive a mandatory "mental health evaluation" after he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.

    Hamline spokesman Jacqueline Getty declined on Wednesday to answer questions about the suspension, saying that federal privacy laws prohibited the school from commenting. Scheffler had previously waived his privacy rights in a letter to Hamline University President Linda Hanson.


    Hamline University President Linda Hanson, who said the school "acted carefully" in suspending its pro-gun rights student
    The nonpartisan civil liberties group FIRE, which stands for the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, has taken up Scheffler's case, but with no luck so far. In a letter to FIRE on September 28, Hamline's attorneys said the school would not reconsider Scheffler's punishment.

    Scheffler had sent the pair of e-mail messages after Hamline offered students counseling after the Virginia Tech shooting in April, which took place half a continent away. His response was that, if administrators were truly concerned about safety on campus, they should "lift a ridiculous conceal carry campus ban and let the students worry about their own 'security.'"

    Scheffler is licensed under Minnesota law to carry a concealed sidearm, which requires a background check and specific training.

    In May, after word got out about Scheffler's punishment but before FIRE became involved, conservative blogs rallied to his defense. A psychologist in Tennessee called it a case of university officials learning that "a conservative is on the loose on campus." Captain's Quarters interviewed Scheffler about so-called gun-free zones and concluded he was a "nice guy caught up in the academic manifestations of political correctness."

    That's the high-level summary. Some of the details are important, though.

    Angry e-mails: One point is that while Scheffler's e-mails were not threatening, they were angry and had sexist and racist overtones. Read them for yourself: The first, to Vice President of Student Affairs David Stern, said: "I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard)."

    The second message, to President Linda Hanson, said: "For a 'Christian' university, I am very disappointed in Hamline. With the motif of the curriculum, the atheist professors, jewish and other non-Christian staff, I would charge the school with wanton misrepresentation...3 out of 3 students just in my class that are 'minorities' are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR." (Hamline is affiliated with the United Methodist Church and claims to promote "the ethics and values of the United Methodist tradition.")

    Even some libertarians who think Scheffler was ill-treated have criticized his grammar and approach. A professor at Brooklyn College who believes the suspension was unjustified said he was nevertheless "dismayed that (Scheffler) has progressed to the master's degree level without having mastered some aspects of basic grammar."

    "Privacy" rights: What's odd is that Hamline initially claimed the e-mail messages were "threatening" and placed Scheffler on an indefinite suspension that required him to undergo a mental health evaluation, a possible "treatment plan," an interview with the dean of students, and so on. The possibility of "further" internal discipline was also mentioned.

    But then, after FIRE pointed out being suspended for expressing political views violated the school's freedom of expression policy, President Hanson retreated to a fallback position. Hanson said that the suspension was also based on "critical input from various members of the Hamline community."

    The bizarre thing is that to this day, Hamline has never informed Scheffler what those anonymous allegations were (or who his anonymous accusers are). It claims that Scheffler's formal waiver of his rights under federal privacy law is insufficient because it has to "protect the privacy rights and interests of these other individuals."

    FIRE's Harvey Silverglate quipped: "Confidentiality is so protected at American colleges and universities that they don't even let the students know what the charges are!"

    Hamline's response: I spoke with Hamline spokesman Jacqueline Getty on the phone on Wednesday and exchanged six e-mail messages with her, but never actually got an answer to why the school wouldn't answer general questions about student free speech rights and due process.

    All she gave me was this statement:


    Hamline has never suspended a student for advocating for gun rights, nor for advocating for any other rights...As we have already informed FIRE, federal privacy laws that protect the rights of that student actually prevent the university from correcting each item of misinformation on FIRE's press release and from articulating in detail what may have transpired with this student.

    This misses the point. If there are serious allegations against Scheffler, he has a right under the student code to hear them and be able to respond. It's hardly appropriate to base a suspension and mandatory psychological evaluation on anonymous and undefined allegations that may not even exist.

    It's also inappropriate, especially in light of the Cleveland shooting on Wednesday, to try to squelch discussion of whether holders of concealed carry permits should be able to bring their sidearms on campus. It's already legal at the University of Utah and other states are considering the idea of eliminating victim disarmament zones. That may be a good idea; it may not. But universities should try to encourage debate rather than punish students for poorly written rants broaching the topic.
    "Good friends, good food & good wine. Anything else is just a waste of soy sauce.":)
  • #2
    kermit315
    Calguns Addict
    • Sep 2007
    • 5928

    sounds like he was the unpopular kid on the block due to his views and they decided to get rid of him before he caused any more "trouble" (you know, the kind that makes people break out of being sheeple and actually think at school)

    hope he gets somewhere with this, but I wont hold my breath

    Comment

    • #3
      hitman13
      Veteran Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 3793

      WAFJ, im surprised that there hasnt been a lawsuit filed yet.

      Comment

      • #4
        berto
        Calguns Addict
        • Oct 2005
        • 7723

        The poor sap mixed too many messages in his emails. He made it easy for them to paint him as an agry wackjob and play the security card. It ain't right but that's how the game is played. I feel for the guy but he did it to himself.
        "There are no outdoor sports as graceful as throwing stones at a dictatorship." Ai WeiWei

        Comment

        • #5
          want_ar
          Member
          • Sep 2007
          • 122

          Originally posted by berto
          The poor sap mixed too many messages in his emails. He made it easy for them to paint him as an agry wackjob and play the security card. It ain't right but that's how the game is played. I feel for the guy but he did it to himself.
          I agree. It is hard to not come across as a nutjob if you spout off emails like this mixed with with pro-gun messages and the fact that he could legally carry a firearm:

          "The first, to Vice President of Student Affairs David Stern, said: "I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard)."

          The second message, to President Linda Hanson, said: "For a 'Christian' university, I am very disappointed in Hamline. With the motif of the curriculum, the atheist professors, jewish and other non-Christian staff, I would charge the school with wanton misrepresentation...3 out of 3 students just in my class that are 'minorities' are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR." (Hamline is affiliated with the United Methodist Church and claims to promote "the ethics and values of the United Methodist tradition.") "

          Comment

          • #6
            MrTuffPaws
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2005
            • 2156

            Originally posted by berto
            The poor sap mixed too many messages in his emails. He made it easy for them to paint him as an agry wackjob and play the security card. It ain't right but that's how the game is played. I feel for the guy but he did it to himself.
            Exactly.

            Comment

            • #7
              N6ATF
              Banned
              • Jul 2007
              • 8383

              To call this guy a retard would be an insult to retards.

              Comment

              • #8
                DedEye
                Calguns Addict
                • Nov 2006
                • 8655

                Originally posted by berto
                The poor sap mixed too many messages in his emails. He made it easy for them to paint him as an agry wackjob and play the security card. It ain't right but that's how the game is played. I feel for the guy but he did it to himself.
                Definitely.

                It's one thing to be an articulate advocate of student self defense by way of concealed carry permits, but it's another to come off as a "typical racist redneck conservative." There's a video in another thread of VA CC students very eloquently arguing their case for CCW on campus; it's quite the opposite of these emails.
                These posts are Fiction. They do not contain legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. Any resemblance to real persons are pure coincidence. These posts may pose an inhalation hazard, reading can be harmful or fatal. No statements made on this forum are meant to represent any corporate or business entity, others, or myself. Especially not myself.

                Stop duping answers, help expand the FAQ.

                Why yes, that is me in my avatar and yes, I AM wearing a life jacket.

                WTS Keltec P11

                Comment

                • #9
                  The SoCal Gunner
                  Veteran Member
                  • May 2006
                  • 3319

                  I think the school did right. From what he wrote he seems angry and had I been the recipient of the emails, I would have been worried for the minority students.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    metalhead357
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 5546

                    retard or not. Sexist or not...he's got a right to spout it, preach it, say it, and send it............. and I'll defend the doofus's right to do so.

                    Some here I think need a reality check on the first amendment. It DOES apply here and the school is asinine for imposing this on him. I hope they have thier rears handed back to this guy in a lawsuit...........

                    You DO have a right to free speech; NOBODY has a right to be UN-offended. His words may have offended some-- but that aint reason to suspend.............
                    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered....
                    I am not a number! I am a free man

                    1.)All humanity would be better off if Stoooopid hurt.
                    2.)Why is it that if guns are sooooo unsafe that you're 9 times more likely to die at the hands of your doctor?
                    3.)Remember...Buy it cheap & stack it deep

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      anothergunnut
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 1819

                      Originally posted by N6ATF
                      To call this guy a retard would be an insult to retards.
                      By saying he needs a mental health evaluation, they are calling him a retard.

                      Perhaps he is crazy for pointing out that he feels he is being subjected to reverse-discrimination. Doesn't he know that it is a political crime to question affirmative action programs?
                      Check back later for a witty comment.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        N6ATF
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 8383

                        This has nothing to do with freedom of speech; it's about intelligence of speech (or writing, as the case may be). He's a retard because he MIXED MESSAGES!

                        If you want to campaign for your RTKBA everywhere in the country, do that in your pleading, and ONLY THAT! Don't shoot yourself and every single other law abiding gun owner in the foot by mixing messages with racial issues.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          metalhead357
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 5546

                          I hear ya' N6--- and agree to a point, he is a tard....but even tards have the RTKABA as well as freedom of speech. He wasn't in a voted position nor was he a celeb and in the public eye for all to wax ecstatic over...he just a doofus trying to spout what he thought was unfair; We ALL should be writing letters daily to asshats like these in his college's admin. So while I DO agree he is a dork for sending mixed messeges- it IS his right to do so & he never was on the hook for representing anyone but himself and his own <goofy> opinions.....

                          the moment we all start saying he should NOT have said such and such- we are no better than the anti's we hate as we launch us all down that slippery slope of creeping incrimentalism.................
                          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered....
                          I am not a number! I am a free man

                          1.)All humanity would be better off if Stoooopid hurt.
                          2.)Why is it that if guns are sooooo unsafe that you're 9 times more likely to die at the hands of your doctor?
                          3.)Remember...Buy it cheap & stack it deep

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            psriley
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 548

                            Problem is, while this guy's messages contain some viewpoints that are questionable (the racial stuff), and firearms viewpoints that don't seem at all questionable, he got flagged for the firearms content.

                            He probably could've sent the management of that particular university messages containing racial epithets but no firearms-related content, and they would've let it go due to "freedom of expression".
                            A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              N6ATF
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 8383

                              Originally posted by metalhead357
                              he never was on the hook for representing anyone but himself and his own <goofy> opinions.....
                              Of course this is technically correct, as he is not a lawyer representing gun owners. Yet the article did say
                              he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.
                              So whether 'we' like it or not, according to this article, 'we' were being represented by this retard who couldn't keep his arguments germane, instead diverging into topics that had nothing to do with guns, or 'us', but was automatically tied to guns, and 'us', because he was arguing FOR 'us'.
                              Last edited by N6ATF; 10-14-2007, 4:50 PM.

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