Range Obligation Regarding Illegal Guns

[Riodog]

I'd mind my own business unless there was a a clear and present danger to others. Noting license numbers and descriptions (and maybe photo's) are not out of the question. I wouldn't make a confrontation over a 20 rd mag. Maybe if said as**le was with an ugly women.
Rio

[xibunkrlilkidsx]

the range should enforce all gun laws for their own liabilty reasons. they need to protect their buisness and the way most of them prob support their families.

Some people know their weapons will draw attention, legal NFA stuff RAW, AOW etc, and should for their own prtoection have paperwork proving it, not only at the range but incase they are stopped as well.

And as a shoter it is up to us to self regulate each other. Yes there are some people who will not listen to reason but last thing we need is some jack off to screw things up. You dont have to go running up to them saying OMG your illegal. Try and beat around the bush and get some info and talk to the RSO, or who ever runs the range about it possibly being illegal or not and elave it to them.

[numsii]

[SixPointEight]

I work as an RSO, I don't tell people their guns are illegal, unless I see something I am pretty sure is illegal. And then, I'll ask questions.

"hey I noticed you put the VFG from your AR onto your M9A1, are you aware that makes the pistol into an assault weapon?"

"I see you have a magnetic bullet button tool, we call those felony buttons around here, there's a copy of the flowchart in the office."

"I see you have a pistol that uses 10/22 mags that feeds from outside the pistol grip, I'm not sure that's entirely legal. Check out the flowchart on calguns.net if it's not a RAW"

We get a good amount of police and off-duty officers on the range. I'd hate for them to get arrested and say "nobody told me." So far I've helped about 15 people who didn't know they had illegal guns. I had one customer who told me it was none of my business. Pretty good risk/reward there.

[John Browning]

Careful, M1A with standard flash hider and 20 rd. mag is an AW if I understand correctly. WIth the muzzle brake you're OK.

In that case the RO, if he figured it out, would be right. But, hey, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

This is exactly why it is a bad idea to chime in on laws when you aren't 100% sure you're right. This is how rumors and FUD spread. This is why I hate going to public ranges to be told that my 20 round mags are illegal unless my rifle has a bullet button, or I have reciepts for them, or I only use them on Thursdays during a half-moon when the temperature gets above 50 degrees. These laws are incredibly confusing by design, and unless you're being a complete idiot I've yet to hear of anyone get busted for anything at a range. Most people at a range, even LEO, like guns and like responsible gun owners. They will probably just leave you alone unless you look and/or act like a scumbag. They don't want to spend their day off hauling you down to someplace or doing a butt-load of paperwork.

Your blind squirrel wouldn't have found a nut, but he'd be annoying as hell. The problem with the legal advice at the range is that they often are sure they are right, even when they are 100% wrong. Here is the truth:

There is no reason you can't have a 20 round M14 mags. I have lots of them. Shockingly, they are all legal to own and have been since I bought them a long time ago.

There is no reason you can't put those mags into a registered M1A with the standard flash hider.

There is no reason you can't put those mags into a non-registered M1A with a muzzle break.

The only thing you can't do is put them into a fixed magazine rifle (i.e. a modified M1A with bullet button) because then you have the fixed magazine of over 20 rounds problem. Ironically, this is probably one of the most common things I've seen at the range that are illegal and have even heard a RSO tell someone that those "maximum capacity mags" are only legal if you have a "bullet button." Facepalmus maximus.

[Gryff]

This is exactly why it is a bad idea to chime in on laws when you aren't 100% sure you're right. This is how rumors and FUD spread.

And how EXACTLY is he wrong/spreading FUD?

M1A in original configuration with original flash hider = assault weapon (due to features despite the fact that it doesn't have a pistol grip).

M1A with muzzle break = not an assault weapon.

I'm confused how you think that's FUD.

[John Browning]

Careful, M1A with standard flash hider and 20 rd. mag is an AW if I understand correctly. WIth the muzzle brake you're OK.

...and being the important preposition linking two ideas...

And how EXACTLY is he wrong/spreading FUD?

M1A in original configuration with original flash hider = assault weapon (due to features despite the fact that it doesn't have a pistol grip).

M1A with muzzle break = not an assault weapon.

I'm confused how you think that's FUD.

I'm confused as to how you think he's correct. One poster asked about using 20 round mags in an M1A. If you have 20 round mags and an M1A you're free to join the two in blessed union unless you have a BB. His post makes it sound like mags and AW laws are somehow connected. Except for the 10-round limit in a fixed mag, they aren't.

[17+1]

IMO, I paid to shoot at a range, not get lectured by someone that is trying to be a lawyer. That said, everything I have is configured in accordance with PRK law, so it's not like it would matter to me either way. Have 10 (hold 9, actually, like to be safe) written with paint on my blocked magazines, so there is a visual indication that it is infact blocked.

Have had a RSO at a local range get on me for leaving my unloaded AR on the sandbags, pointed downrange, with a chamber flag in it when I was collecting my brass behind the line. He said I need to remove the magazine when I leave the rifle unattended...I said it's a top loader and the mag don't come out without disassembling the rifle(too cheap to buy a BB ), per CA law. Shut him down pretty fast.

[ubet]

Oh public ranges, I remember when I had to go to them. I feel sorry for all you. The ros at sac valley are great though, the one time I went to elk grove gun room though

[stix213]

That being said, I could see a bizarre scenario where someone is checking in with an RO. They have an sbr and they look to be about 18 years old. Immediately you confirm they are not LE and are no where close enough in age to have lawfully registered an AR. They openly admit that they don't have any idea what a RAW is or what the NFA is. They admit to building a lower that was given to them with parts they ordered online. Can an RO detain or arrest? I think they would be on solid legal ground, but I would hope they would chose to educate the new shooter. If a private citizen is going to this route, obtaining some form of an admission would be essential.

I would hope in that scenario that the RO would tell the stupid kid his rifle is illegal, hand him a copy of the AW flow chart, and tell him not to come back until he can draw a line from "Start" to "Legal." The AW law makes so little sense that I don't think all violations should be met with an arrest. I mean, is there any other state that makes it a felony to install a magazine lock on a AR-15 with large-capacity mags installed? Only in California would the law say that no, you have to be able to quickly swap out large-cap mags without a tool for it to be legal. Anything slowing you down is a felony.... Makes no sense

Also, I take back the tone at least of a previous comment of mine toward you. I didn't realize when you said you can tell by looking at a gun if its illegal or not, that you were referring to LE registered firearm database access. That would certainly make the task easier

[Briancnelson]

I think most of these responses break down to:

1. Mind your own business unless it's really obviously illegal and you are sure, or someone is endangering the other paid patrons.

2. Enforce safety rules (see #1).

and maybe:

3. Keep a copy of the flowchart in the office and hand it to people who you aren't sure about, let them be responsible for their own problems after that.

[762.DEFENSE]

This thread is exactly why I stopped shooting at public ranges. No one bothers you when you're in the desert or on BLM land. I just got over the FUD that CA outdoor ranges bring with them.