FL vs MPro7/Otis CLP

[Briancnelson]

Dunno then. That's about what I did, and I get different results. I've seen a couple other threads where people got wildly variable results as well on other forums. That's true of just about every lube however, we're not exactly doing lab science here.

Hard to say what the x factor there is.

The only one I've seen perform exceptionally well on every rust test ever is that Eezox stuff. I can't bring myself to use it on my gun, where I have to apply it frequently, and usually indoors, but I have put it on some marine gear, where I can apply it outdoors without smelling it, and I don't do it more than every few months.

[1911su16b870]

I just wanted to rotate the FL into regular cleaning/lubing of the one AR and that is exactly what I did. I will run it only using the FL and report back when I have data.

[NorCal Einstein]

Thanks for taking the time to do the rust testing!

I'm a FrogLube user and I'm pretty fond of the stuff after seeing that my cleanings have become significantly faster and easier. The most labor intensive part was the initial switch/application of FL since you have to strip off the old lubricant (I was using MPro7 before), heat up the parts, apply and let sit. After that initial seasoning, I can clean my gun with paper towels/rags/qtips and a boresnake through the barrel. The gunk just wipes off.

I'm a little concerned with the rust you got in the FrogLube test though. Like you said, yeah that's probably worst condition, but it's disappointing to see that FL really failed that test. If I have some time one of these weekends, I'm thinking about doing a smaller version of the test you did, to see if I can replicate the rust results. I'm thinking of even treating the metal more than twice to try and get it to "match" the condition of my parts. Since I apply FL through the barrel right after I'm done shooting while it's still hot, I want to believe that my parts have absorbed quite a bit of FL over time and maybe that will help with the rust prevention.

[-hanko]

Dunno then. That's about what I did, and I get different results. I've seen a couple other threads where people got wildly variable results as well on other forums. That's true of just about every lube however, we're not exactly doing lab science here.

Hard to say what the x factor there is.

The 'X' factor is that the testing isn't standardized from one tester to another...

Standardizing the testing is as simple as testing to a recognized standard for corrosion testing. For military parts, that usually involves exposing the test samples to salt fog in a controlled environment...which means controlling temperature, humidity, concentration of the salt solution, and time. Like here...http://www.sterlingperformance.org/C...n_Testing.html

Without defining testing conditions, you can expect a wide variation in results.

Until FrogLube actually tests their stuff under standardized conditions with an independent lab their claims are interesting but irrelevant.

Their comments about "pores in the metal" and "seasoning" reflects very little knowledge of metallurgy.

Further, saying the SEALS use it means little...has the USN specified FL for SEAL's as a standard part and actually let a competitive contract?? I'm thinking it's more like a SEAL bought some and used it on his weapon...big difference. I asked the question of UTV a week ago on another thread here, no answer as of yet.

Relevant US military spec for clp is MIL-PRF-63460, the qpl (qualified producers list) is here...http://qpd.daps.dla.mil/qpd/quick_se...?qpl=QPL-63460. Click the blue "CLP" link on the left side.

Ask the FL folks if they've actually qualified their product to the specification...that doesn't mean they've tested it and they think it meets the spec; that does mean an independent lab has tested FL and found it meets all requirements. If so, they can give you a url to the test results; if not, their claims need a little clarification.

This the typical new/revolutionary/does-it-all/miracle cleaner...wait another year or 2 and somebody else will make the same claims.

-hanko (who's done more than a bit of controlled corrosion testing)

Nomex on.

happy 4th

[fuzz415]

i may not be able to read that crazy qpl link, but is breakfree CLP even on there?

[Briancnelson]

Actually, minus all the verbiage, that was more or less my point. We weren't doing lab testing and we don't have controlled condition, so...

It's hard to say what the difference was between the two situations.

It's still better than no data however, which is why we do it.

[utvtactical]

Seals are using FrogLube

We have had Seal Teams purchasing FrogLube directly from FrogLube and through a retailer located at the Coronado base. They have purchased Kits and gallons of paste. True, that it has not been sold through the Government purchasing process, but the Seals choose what they want...and some want FrogLube.

[beetle]

what does the seal teams comment have anything to do with this thread? Can we have a discussion about the effectiveness of FL without the hardsell? sigh....

[bruss01]

The FrogLube liquid is a standard garden-variety synthetic oil that has a suspension of the paste in it. The paste is the pure FrogLube product - at least, those are my beliefs based on what I have seen and learned about the product so far.

I would suggest re-running the rust test but this time using the paste alone. I suspect it is for the paste product (undilluted) that the rust prevention claims are primarily being made. Glad to hear about the ease of cleanup, will have to try that out with a few of my hard-to-clean firearms. I'm hoping for some really spectacular results with old milsurp barrels and with revolver cylinder faces.

I have thought of trying to use it to clean the ceramic stovetop we have. That thing is a mess of burned on cooking spatter and nothing cleans it up without a LOT of elbow grease. I wouldn't think a stovetop gets much hotter than the inside of a rifle barrel so I would reason that this should be safe.

[Briancnelson]

OK, UTV, except one of the active ingredients in the liquid according to their own MSDS is a synthetic lubricant , poly-alpha olefin. So that claim has already been pretty much disproven in another thread.

Honestly, I actually like Froglube, and I'd love to have a discussion of it that doesn't include UTV at this point ;P

[pc_load_letter]

RE: Their comments about "pores in the metal" and "seasoning" reflects very little knowledge of metallurgy.

While I am no metallurgist, after speaking to a chef buddy of mine, he explained to me that chefs will regularly heat their pans, apply oil, repeat. The same can be said of the "seasoning" you get with cast iron. After use, the seasoning and flavor is in the pan.

[newbee1111]

RE: Their comments about "pores in the metal" and "seasoning" reflects very little knowledge of metallurgy.

While I am no metallurgist, after speaking to a chef buddy of mine, he explained to me that chefs will regularly heat their pans, apply oil, repeat. The same can be said of the "seasoning" you get with cast iron. After use, the seasoning and flavor is in the pan.

Isn't that usually only done for cast iron? I've never heard of seasoning being done for stainless.

[pc_load_letter]

Seasoning works for Stainless as well...

"Amy,

Because the stainless steel is such a porus metal, when you bring the face of the metal in contact with hot water it opens up the pores in the pan and will extract the oils that you used to season it with....

This method is to protect it from sticking, if you are using the pan for general saute etc. this method really is not necessary, but I usually do it when I first purchase a saute pan.

Good question...

Cheffy"

http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/12287/seasoning-of-stainless-steel-fry-pan

[morfeeis]

what does the seal teams comment have anything to do with this thread? Can we have a discussion about the effectiveness of FL without the hardsell? sigh....

Read post #19 guy

[L4D]

Read post #19 guy

Read post #22 guy. It's another damn plug.

UTV is saying "SEAL TEAMS" are buying it. Really? There is no "I" in team. So either the whole "TEAM" is lining up to buy it or just as another poster mentioned, 1 SEAL.