Anti gun fact?

[ARRRR-15]

I just heard that you are 9 times more likely to shoot a family member or yourself than an intruder if you have a gun in your home. Is this true? I have an anit gun family member and we argue all the time, but sometimes I don't have a come back to prove him wrong.

Hey, that gives me an idea. What about an anitgun fact or fiction forum. I'm sure everyone here has heard a lot of different things from the anit's. Would be cool to post what was said and let a group put a response together.

[Res]

check out gun facts v. 4.2. It's very extensive and should answer most of your questions.

[dfletcher]

Tell him yes it's true - then offer to buy his spouse a gun.

Always ask what is his source and beware of those middle of the road sounding groups - Citizens for Safe Homes sort of moniker. They often have an anti gun agenda.

And you probably won't change his mind or "prove" him wrong - but let's say he's correct. What does that mean? If 1,000 criminals attempted to break into, rob or murder 1,000 innocent people and each of those people pointed a gun at their attacker and stopped the offense - and another 9 people shot a family member - what would have happened if all 1009 people did not have guns? Those 9 now dead family members would be alive I suppose, but what about the 1,000 folks who would be without a gun?

And by the way - sometimes family members are properly shot. An abused wife shoots the husband who's about to beat her for the 100th time should have a gun. Ask him if that's included in his stats. You could also ask him if he's in favor of women being defenseless, but that would not be sporting.

[Librarian]

I just heard that you are 9 times more likely to shoot a family member or yourself than an intruder if you have a gun in your home. Is this true?

That's a variant of the Kellermann paper - Arthur Kellermann and Don Reay, "Protection or peril? An analysis of firearms related deaths in the home." (New Engl J Med 1986. 314: 1557-60.) - as it was reported in the press - see guncite, follow some of the links at the bottom.

No, it is not true.

[Bishop]

If that's the study I'm thinking of, not even the researcher who wrote it stands by it now. It's been thoroughly disproven.

[milsurpshooter]

there was a girl who wanted to play a joke on her dad and she left to go stay at friends house. well she sneaked back into the house and hid inside of a closet. well her father heard this grabbed his gun and said identify yourself. there was no response so he shot into the closet killing his daughter. now who is to blame here. the evil gun owner or the stupid daughter.

[762cavalier]

there was a girl who wanted to play a joke on her dad and she left to go stay at friends house. well she sneaked back into the house and hid inside of a closet. well her father heard this grabbed his gun and said identify yourself. there was no response so he shot into the closet killing his daughter. now who is to blame here. the evil gun owner or the stupid daughter.

Uh the stupid gun owner in this instance. At no point did he actually identify a target. He just took a random shot

[milsurpshooter]

and if he opened the door with a gun in his face?

[Bishop]

and if he opened the door with a gun in his face?

It doesn't matter. Rule 4, be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

It's the same reason you don't shoot at shadows. You shouldn't take the chance, and shouldn't put yourself in a position where you would have to. And why would he shoot at someone inside a closet with nowhere to go? Why not call the cops? I agree with 762; stupid gun owner.

[Josh3239]

I just heard that you are 9 times more likely to shoot a family member or yourself than an intruder if you have a gun in your home.

My first thought was, does this include suicides? And I would guess yes. And the person who posted self defense in an abusive relationship is a good point as well.

[anothergunnut]

Random murder is pretty rare. Most people who are murdered are killed by people they know. That person might be an intimate partner, a family member, or their drug dealing rival.

I don't keep firearms in my house, only locked in a safe. I am not worried about somebody forcing their way into my house and doing me harm but I am worried that my children might have unsupervised access to firearms.

[ARRRR-15]

Those were some good links. They answered a couple other things for me as well. These points are coming up in the next talk for sure.

[milsurpshooter]

well now days thats what a lot of gang bangers are doing. what they do is knock on the door with some kind of excuse like can i use your phone theres been an accident or something and as soon as you open the door bam out comes a gun and his partner. what do you do in those situation? keep in mind that they use a reasonable excuse to get you to open the door. so i dont wanna hear well i just wouldn't answer the door. and this isn't in the getto there doing this in nicer nieghborhoods so your not expecting a hood at the door. what do you do?

[CalNRA]

well now days thats what a lot of gang bangers are doing. what they do is knock on the door with some kind of excuse like can i use your phone theres been an accident or something and as soon as you open the door bam out comes a gun and his partner. what do you do in those situation? keep in mind that they use a reasonable excuse to get you to open the door. so i dont wanna hear well i just wouldn't answer the door. and this isn't in the getto there doing this in nicer nieghborhoods so your not expecting a hood at the door. what do you do?

call the police for them.

[johnny_22]

Always identify who is at the door before opening

First thing installed at my house was a peep hole on the front door and the second was an simple Radio Shack battery operated camper intercom. If I don't recognize who is at the door, the door does not open, and I talk to them through the intercom.

Only person who ever asked to use my phone was my usual mailman (locked his keys inside his truck).