Just got back from Front Sight

[Kodemonkey]

Only 1 person out of my group of 40 graduated. No it wasn't me. I ended up with 66 points out of the 86 needed for a "Graduate" sticker on the certificate. That was tied for 7th place in the group. I was pretty pleased with that since I finished ahead of many long time shooters and repeat course attendees.

THAT boggles my mind!

He's got to mean "distinguished graduate". In my class there were only 3. That means 90% or better on the tests. You have to do 70% or better to graduate. In my class there were only a handful that did not graduate. I think the only silver sticker papers are distinguished.



Graduating "distinguished" means you can take the combat master prep class.

My experience at Front Sight was very valuable. I want to go take the combat master prep next or perhaps the tactical shotgun (that just sounds like fun).

[Zak]

If the cost of the course is keeping you from going...

... check the auctions sites (eBay, etc.), you can find Front Site 4 day traning certificates for around $100-200 a piece.

Thanks for the tip. I noticed they're all over eBay, are they legit? A $2000 course for $100 just seems a bit strange to me.

[c.j.]

Thanks for the tip. I noticed they're all over eBay, are they legit? A $2000 course for $100 just seems a bit strange to me.

I don't think very many ever pay $2000. Even their own site always has the "free gun" deal for that or less. Members seem to get the certificates fairly often to sell. I'm using a $69 next week, and that was from FS itself last year, so yes, these are usually legit.

[Zak]

I don't think very many ever pay $2000. Even their own site always has the "free gun" deal for that or less. Members seem to get the certificates fairly often to sell. I'm using a $69 next week, and that was from FS itself last year, so yes, these are usually legit.

I see, I also noticed it's a one-use per person deal, so I'm guessing it's equivalent to some sort of trial run?

He's got to mean "distinguished graduate". In my class there were only 3. That means 90% or better on the tests. You have to do 70% or better to graduate. In my class there were only a handful that did not graduate. I think the only silver sticker papers are distinguished.



Graduating "distinguished" means you can take the combat master prep class.

My experience at Front Sight was very valuable. I want to go take the combat master prep next or perhaps the tactical shotgun (that just sounds like fun).

After some snooping around, it seems that becoming a Distinguished Graduate is really difficult. Is there any secret to it, or do you just have to be a proficient shooter before you attend?

I'm interested in taking the course, but it'd be nice to get the Distinguished Graduate the first time around, and not have to take it twice

[Bert Gamble]

He's got to mean "distinguished graduate". In my class there were only 3. That means 90% or better on the tests. You have to do 70% or better to graduate. In my class there were only a handful that did not graduate. I think the only silver sticker papers are distinguished.



Graduating "distinguished" means you can take the combat master prep class.

My experience at Front Sight was very valuable. I want to go take the combat master prep next or perhaps the tactical shotgun (that just sounds like fun).

Nope, I mean "Graduate". Only one person in my group recieved "Graduate" and no one got "Distinguished Graduate". In the group next to mine, there was 1 "Distinguished Graduate", and 3 "Graduates".

As far as the malfunstions are concerned, we were tested on the 4 types of malfunctions and did each one twice. You have between 1.4 and 5.7 seconds to clear a malfunction, or you lose 3 points for going over time. The Type 3 malfunction is what they call the "Mother of all malfunctions" and has a round in the chamber, and another from the magazine wedged up against it with the slide blocked open.

The steps for clearing it are:
1. Attempt to fire and get a dead trigger
2. Diagnose the malfunction
3. Check for a loaded magazine at your belt
4. Lock the slide back
5. Strip the magazine to the ground
6. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and rack the slide 3 times
7. Insert the magazine from you belt
8. Hit the slide release to chamber the round

Do all of this in 5.7 seconds or lose points.

The shooting part was easier for me, but it is still hard to draw from a concealed holster and fire a controlled pair to center mass from varying distances in times from 1.5 to 3.4 seconds.

Anyone who thinks it is easy is one deadly mofo that no one wants to stand in front of.

I had 66 points remaining from the 125 that everyone starts with. That was good for a tie for 7th place.

I cannot speak to how many other classes had multiple "Graduates". I only know what happened when I was there.

[Tripper]

something to keep in mind on the scoring system.
dont quote me on these, i'm just conveying the method of scoring not the actual numbers.
when you are timed for an event;
malfunction clearing for instance, taking too long loses 1 point, whereas doing it incorrectly loses like a point for each mistake, racking up points.
timed shots, missing loses a point for each miss, and more points off the further off target i think (center mass no points off, in gray 1 point off, in white 2 points off, off target 3 points off)
taking your time (and making the hit) and taking too long, loses only 1 point.

Take your time, do it right, and for the most part you'll get the least points deducted.

congrats, good luck.
dry practice, including those clearing drills, the type 3 kills me.

[Bert Gamble]

something to keep in mind on the scoring system.
dont quote me on these, i'm just conveying the method of scoring not the actual numbers.
when you are timed for an event;
malfunction clearing for instance, taking too long loses 1 point, whereas doing it incorrectly loses like a point for each mistake, racking up points.
timed shots, missing loses a point for each miss, and more points off the further off target i think (center mass no points off, in gray 1 point off, in white 2 points off, off target 3 points off)
taking your time (and making the hit) and taking too long, loses only 1 point.

Take your time, do it right, and for the most part you'll get the least points deducted.

congrats, good luck.
dry practice, including those clearing drills, the type 3 kills me.

You are correct on the scoring system, but as you pointed out, you are off on the actual numbers.

Going over time is 3 points, no matter if it is shooting or clearing. Missing the target is 3 points off if it is in the gray and 5 points off if you get white. On the head shots, a miss that still hits the head is 3 points off, while a miss that hits the body or anything white is 5 points off.

You can only get 39 points taken off and graduate. Imagine if you make a bad shot that is a little slow. That is 8 points off right there.

I think I will do better next time.

[GW]

You bet you will do better.
Taking classes can be addicting
I'm heading there in June for 4-day handgun class.
October for shotgun

Good review!

[MP301]

You bet you will do better.
Taking classes can be addicting
I'm heading there in June for 4-day handgun class.
October for shotgun

Good review!

I may see you in June depending on what dates I go. And you should read my post on the Shotgun course I just came back from as well. Learned a few things the hard way!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=424819

[Kodemonkey]

Nope, I mean "Graduate". Only one person in my group recieved "Graduate" and no one got "Distinguished Graduate". In the group next to mine, there was 1 "Distinguished Graduate", and 3 "Graduates".

As far as the malfunstions are concerned, we were tested on the 4 types of malfunctions and did each one twice. You have between 1.4 and 5.7 seconds to clear a malfunction, or you lose 3 points for going over time. The Type 3 malfunction is what they call the "Mother of all malfunctions" and has a round in the chamber, and another from the magazine wedged up against it with the slide blocked open.

The steps for clearing it are:
1. Attempt to fire and get a dead trigger
2. Diagnose the malfunction
3. Check for a loaded magazine at your belt
4. Lock the slide back
5. Strip the magazine to the ground
6. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and rack the slide 3 times
7. Insert the magazine from you belt
8. Hit the slide release to chamber the round

Do all of this in 5.7 seconds or lose points.

The shooting part was easier for me, but it is still hard to draw from a concealed holster and fire a controlled pair to center mass from varying distances in times from 1.5 to 3.4 seconds.

Anyone who thinks it is easy is one deadly mofo that no one wants to stand in front of.

I had 66 points remaining from the 125 that everyone starts with. That was good for a tie for 7th place.

I cannot speak to how many other classes had multiple "Graduates". I only know what happened when I was there.

Hmm... I only went off how many people had white papers. I'm assuming that meant graduate. Maybe it did not. We had some good shooters in the group. However, everyone improved. Some quite dramatically. That's really what it is all about.

I hobby compete IDPA (I am in the bottom "marksman" division and I tend to be in the middle of the pack in my class), so I am used to the buzzer and being under time stress. The key, as another person pointed out, is to try NOT to be fast. Smooth is fast. Economy of movement is fast. Whenever I tried to speed up my presentation, I would tend to really thrust the gun out. Then I had to make adjustments, overall slowing me down. Trying to get my sights lined up while I was pushing forward gave me more time for sight picture and better time to first shot. I just shot IDPA last week for the first time since my class and I came in second. Did the best I ever have - and it has been about 6 weeks since I took the Front Sight class.

I put in the extra effort after every class. After we got back to the hotel and had dinner, my buddy and I spent 20-30 minutes with dry practice. We used a shampoo cap from the hotel to run through the malfunction drills (by the way, between 1 and 2 above you should add "move"). When working on something, we would critique each other and would repeat it until we got it down.

We even borrowed the red plastic gun to work through the motions of the drills once because the type 3 kept hanging us up.

My buddy also made Distinguished Graduate (I think he was #1 in the class). He had 9 points down purely on time in the malfunction drills. I had 12 points down. One was a missed head shot right below the cranial ocular box, and the other 9 were purely on time on the malfunction drills.

Dry practice gave us the most dramatic improvements, in the shortest time. Don't underestimate the value of dry practice.

[Sillyguy]

i've been 3 times......

first time was last summer/fall and took 4 day handgun class -- graduated

then went to take the advanced handgun class...froze my *** off.

then went to take the 4 day rifle course...4 points away from dg.

i am a diamond member and i was able to get a bunch of my friends diamond memberships from the diamond drive during new years..... They love it!

[blakdawg]

Thanks for the write-up, it's very helpful to those of us who haven't been to Front Sight (yet).

[Mil-Spec]

I did the 4 day defensive handgun course in April - I was nothing but impressed! I've taken professional training courses for over 20 years - civilian, military, technical, firearms, etc., and the instructors, curriculum, and facilities at Front Sight were world-class.

You could set your watch by when blocks of instruction started and stopped - I swear the range masters were following a script set in 5-minute increments. The instruction is good for experienced shooters and novices alike. We had one person in our relay that had never fired a handgun before class, and was doing well by the end of the course.

I was so impressed, I am not only going back, but I'm taking my whole family! I can think of no better legacy for my sons than a comfort in skill at arms.

Mil-Spec

[GW]

I may see you in June depending on what dates I go. And you should read my post on the Shotgun course I just came back from as well. Learned a few things the hard way!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=424819

I am curious to know what changes have happened over the last 13 years. I took the 2 and 4-day shotgun and was in the first advanced tactical shotgun class back in the Bakersfield days

[MP301]

I am curious to know what changes have happened over the last 13 years. I took the 2 and 4-day shotgun and was in the first advanced tactical shotgun class back in the Bakersfield days

I really dont know what changes have been made over the years. I have only been going since 08. I have talked to members that have been going for a decade and they say every once in a while they will fine tune or make subtle changes that they think will work better. Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine.

The general changes I have seen over the last few years have usually been adminitrative changes due to the incresed volume of students. An exampl is that they no longer parade the entire staff in ther class room to introduce everyone. They bring in a few top level range masters and they your introduced to your instructors when you reach your range.

And a major change that was made due to safety is there are no more night shoots on day three of the 4 day pistol class. Its just too hard to see where everyones muzzle is pointing with pistols. The instructors dreaded that part according to what i was told.

I went to the night shoot the first time and it was fun and all, but day three was about a 14+ hour day with the night shoot and I didnt go to it in the subsequent pistols classes again anyway. It is not as big of a loss as it sounds and makes you tired for test day.