Just got back from Front Sight

[MrOrange]

*snip*

The steps for clearing it are:
1. Attempt to fire and get a dead trigger
2. Diagnose the malfunction
3. Check for a loaded magazine at your belt
4. Lock the slide back
5. Strip the magazine to the ground
6. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and rack the slide 3 times
7. Insert the magazine from you belt
8. Hit the slide release to chamber the round

*snip*

I hate it when schools teach mambos like that.

One basic, clears-all, malfunction drill? Reload.

1. Attempt to fire and get a dead trigger
2. Diagnose the malfunction
3. Check for a loaded magazine at your belt
4. Lock the slide back
2. Slide locked back? Reload.
3. Slide not locked back, proceed.
4. Strip the magazine to the ground
5. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and rack the slide 3 times twice
6. Reload.

[Bert Gamble]

I hate it when schools teach mambos like that.

One basic, clears-all, malfunction drill? Reload.

1. Attempt to fire and get a dead trigger
2. Diagnose the malfunction
3. Check for a loaded magazine at your belt
4. Lock the slide back
2. Slide locked back? Reload.
3. Slide not locked back, proceed.
4. Strip the magazine to the ground
5. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and rack the slide 3 times twice
6. Reload.

I certainly do not know enough to pick apart your method because everything I know, I learned at Front Sight. I do have some questions though.

Item 2. If you do not diagnose the malfunction, how do you know that you need to "Strip the magazine to the ground"? You may just have a bad round in the chamber and a simple rack and flip will take care of it and you are back in the fight.

Item 3. If you do not check for a loaded magazine at your belt and you strip the magazine to the ground. You are pretty much screwed if you don't actually have one on your belt.

Item 4. The slide only needs to be locked back on a type 3 malfunction. Locking it back allows the trapped round to drop out when the magazine is stripped to the ground. I can tell you that if you don't lock it back, it is pretty hard to get that round out. I know because I forgot to lock it back and the round was stuck until I did.

Item 6. I suppose that the malfunction will clear even if the gun is not flipped 90 degrees, but what is the harm in letting gravity help out?

Again, I am not saying that you are wrong.

[GW]

Bert, the way you learned is effective
Stick with it. It works.

[Zak]

I just gave it a shot, stripping the magazine was extremely difficult on my gun.

I would stick with whatever you learned at Front Sight though, those guys know more than I do.

[Kodemonkey]

Not to pile on here...

But the induced type 3 malfunction they have you create is pretty easy to strip with the way Mr Orange stated.

However... ever have a real type 3 happen? Let me tell you, it can be a real pain in the ***. I think the Front Sight method is your best bet, but even they will admit you still might be hosed. At Front Sight my buddy had a honest to goodness type 3 happen. He tried to clear it with their methods, but even with the slide locked back his 1911 would not clear. It took 2 range officers and a gerber tool 10 minutes to pry that puppy out and the mag had to be bent to get it free (it probably was the mag that caused the double feed anyway).

The other reason for the magazine check at your side really does make sense. In the drills they were moving so fast that I neglected to move a magazine from my back pocket to my pouch. The .5 second quick check made me hold onto the mag and put it back in my pouch. Cleared the malfunction and then put it back in the gun. I hate to have stripped a magazine to the ground on concrete only to find with the violence of motion I broke the baseplate off when it hit the ground.

Some of the "mag check, chamber check" routines I thought were a little over the top. But, again, I was at IDPA once and blew a stage because I didn't rack the slide (first shot just happened to be on a twister target and by the time I figured it out and chambered a round it was gone).

The only thing I do not agree with is this part:

(empty gun in holster)
1) present
2) mag check (should be empty)
3) chamber check (should be empty)
4) pop in a magazine
5) rack the slide
6) chamber check
7) remove magazine and give it a second look
8) put magazine back in gun
9) holster

Only problem I have is with #7 & #8. Once you have a mag in there and I have verified that a round is chambered I am ready to go. I have seen people at Front Sight remove the magazine and then put in back and not seat the mag correctly. First shot: bang! followed by a mag dropping out. I've seen it at IDPA with people topping off and not getting it seated. I think if you got it in there and a round is verified in the chamber you are good to go. I've just seen several problems in real life with #7 .

[energizer]

According to a frontsight video they give better training that law enforcement

http://www.frontsight.com/watchvideo.asp?movie=/video/police2

Is it true?
Has anyone with law enforcement weapons training been to frontsight and compared?

[mindwip]

I will preface this with, i have not been to frontsite and have not been trained as a cop. But i have seen what is accepted as accurate with a cop out of the academy at 7 and 25 yrds and i will say its nothing to feel special about. Honestly i would not doubt that a lot of courses are better then what they are taught in basic.

Thats probably why a lot of cops get other training.

[OhThatJim]

I did my first 4-day handgun mid-april as well. It was a fantastic experience. I've only really been shooting for about a year now, I got my first gun last summer. Before that I had gone to the range with buddies and rented guns a few times, but no significant experience. I learned more in that class than I had ever expected and I'm much more confident in my abilities now.

The competitive shoot was a lot of fun, but i'm surprised no one has mentioned the scenario house. That was my favorite part. You learn how to properly clear a doorway and corner, then they run you through a small scenario house with several hostile and non-hostile targets ending with a hostage situation. An instructor is tethered to the back of your belt to follow you through and give you feedback after.

I copied Chief's questionnaire about my experience
Who was your Senior Range Master? I had Greg Estep.

Got edged out in the first round of the shoot out by a part-time instructor who was taking the class with some of his buddies. 3 shots, his 3rd steel hit the bottom a fraction of a second before mine.

Final test shooting I was 9 shots down. I've been a fairly accurate shot from the start, but had never used a holster. The way they train you to draw from the concealed holster was outstanding and made target acquisition really quick and easy.
I was mediocre on the malfunction drills, but parts of my gun like the slide lock are still very stiff. I did them all correctly, but was slow on most. Just need some more practice. That said I still finished as a graduate. I intend to distinguished graduate next go round after I perfect the malfunction drills.

Will I go back to Front Sight? Yes!!!!!!!!!!!! - ditto

I stayed in Vegas. Had a free room for the week at the Rio so I couldn't pass that up. It's about a 50 minute drive from the rio to Front Sight, so you do get a little wore out between the driving and spending all day on the range.

I'm a Diamond First Family member as well.

[Chief-7700]

I got a newsletter saying the restroom facilities are complete! Some pictures from the email I received.










And I'm guessing this is the food trailer Bert Gamble was talking about

In the last picture the guy facing the target to the far left in the green shirt is me.

[Burbur]

Nice update.

Nothing more disgusting than sitting in an Andy Gump Sauna on a hot day. That menu board look fair too.

[sleepthrusurgery]

My husband, my parents and I just returned from a four-day defensive handgun course on Tuesday. We had just purchased our Diamond memberships at a great deal from a coworker. We had Bill Cookston for our rangemaster, and he was great! We all learned alot. My husband had been shooting isosceles for at least 15 years, and had taught me to shoot that way. Learning the Weaver stance was a near-miracle for control and accuracy.

We stayed at the Saddle West in Pahrump, in one of their "executive" suites. It was reasonably priced, but we could have gotten a regular room for about 49/night. Unfortunately they were all sold out, so the last non-smoking room was the one we got. That being said, it was a nice room. A bit old, but had a living room with two sofas (one a pullout bed) with a big TV, desk, bar, refrigerator, microwave, and coffeemaker. Our bedroom had a small king-size bed, another TV, and a bathroom with one sink and a shower. The bonus was we also had a two-person jacuzzi tub, which was nice for sore muscles after a long days' shootin'. Their breakfast buffet was fine, but the same each day, with some minor exceptions. Biscuits, gravy, sausage, corned beef, bacon, pancakes, potatoes, eggs, grits, oatmeal, cold cereal, danish, muffins, canned fruit, fresh fruit, bagels and cream cheese. The best thing is, it's included with your stay.
The bathrooms at Front Sight are mostly port-a-potties, but there is one "real" bathroom near the lecture hall. However, the port-a-potties are the CLEANEST I have seen. I'm usually picky about my bathrooms, but using this one was fine with me.
We pre-bought our lunches from Beach Cafe. The egg salad, tuna, and turkey club sandwiches were really good, and all the extras were filling too. Bring gatorade, though, or something similar.
Since we've been back, we've been trying to spread the word at work to give other people the opportunity to go to Front Sight like us. With our membership, we will be back! I highly recommend it. I can't wait for this weekend, when we will go to the range to practice our skills we learned, in preparation for our next class.