Rifle Stance

[Mesa Tactical]

So, I notice that competition rifle shooters have a weird stance. To me it looks unnatural and odd.

I asked Louis Awerbuck about this when I saw him at the SHOT Show this year (lots of dudes were coming up and handling our shotguns and adopting this exact stance; I had never seen it before this year's SHOT). He said it was a technique that comes and goes, all things in training being faddish, and many trainers attempting to make names for themselves by promoting new and improved techniques of their own invention (or rediscovery) (and sometimes dubious usefulness).

He suggested its current high popularity is a result of its appearance in the Magpul Dynamics DVDs.

In your lower illustration, note the right elbow out completely horizontal. This is the way all US soldiers were trained to shoot for most of the 20th century. It was the way my father was trained in the USMC, and the way he trained me. Nowadays, you are more likely to see the same stance, but with the elbow down close to the body (especially with police, who have to concern themselves with getting through doorways).

And so it goes.

[HCz]

He suggested its current high popularity is a result of its appearance in the Magpul Dynamics DVDs.

Wasn't this stance(or some variations of it) used in 3-guns competition even before Magpul DVD? IIRC, it's where it got started and got adopted by military.

[Mesa Tactical]

Wasn't this stance(or some variations of it) used in 3-guns competition even before Magpul DVD? IIRC, it's where it got started and got adopted by military.

I wouldn't be surprised. I'm sure the Magpul Dynamics guys didn't invent it.

But it is sweeping the nation faster than the Twist ever did, and that's probably down to the popularity of the DVDs (I'm guessing; I haven't actually seen them, except when I am waiting in line at Riflegear).

[gose]

I asked Louis Awerbuck about this when I saw him at the SHOT Show this year (lots of dudes were coming up and handling our shotguns and adopting this exact stance; I had never seen it before this year's SHOT). He said it was a technique that comes and goes, all things in training being faddish, and many trainers attempting to make names for themselves by promoting new and improved techniques of their own invention (or rediscovery) (and sometimes dubious usefulness).
He suggested its current high popularity is a result of its appearance in the Magpul Dynamics DVDs.

Its been used in competitions for years, so its not really a new thing.

A lot of top competitive shooters have been training various military/.gov units for years, so there's little surprise that some of the techniques are now being taught by people who directly or indirectly were being taught, or drew experiences from, competitive shooters.

ETA: but yes, the meteoric rise in popularity lately might very well be from the Magpul DVDs.

[C.W.M.V.]

The competition stance above is also the new combative stance in that it presents armor better(for soldiers) than the bladed stance of old. Less exposure of unarmored areas.

I'm just not sure how it lends itself to shooting from cover, seems awkward looking to me. I guess I should try some different stances this Thursday.

As said above the "competition stance" is what is taught today in line infantry units (except for grabbing the font sight base, weird). Shooting bladed like that is calling back to the days before body armor (which I remember).
Shooting from cover is a shoot however you like affair. We don't train to shoot a Soviet conscript at 300 meters much anymore, now its about putting rounds in a hadj 50 feet away as fast as you can.
Truthfully though all army PMI needs to be revamped. Its outdated and dosen't address the fight at hand.

[Toast]

Even without body armor I'd rather shoot square with the target. It's faster to engage and move between targets and more comfortable to me (compared to the old fashioned bladed stance). I use the thumb over bore technique too but not the extreme that you see the Magpul guys use, their support arms are totally extended with their palms in the 10oclock position which is really tiring and doesn't work for me.

Also... if you're going to get shot it's less likely to hit something vital if you're square to the target. If you're standing bladed and get shot in the side there's a LOT more vitals all lined up in a row.

[HCz]

I wouldn't be surprised. I'm sure the Magpul Dynamics guys didn't invent it.

But it is sweeping the nation faster than the Twist ever did, and that's probably down to the popularity of the DVDs (I'm guessing; I haven't actually seen them, except when I am waiting in line at Riflegear).

I agree on the affects of Magpul DVDs. Even foreign airsofters seemed to pick up things from that DVD.

I don't think I can certainly say that it is more of a fad. It seems to manage recoil a bit better.

[NSR500]

I can tell you that it does help with recoil using both rifles, and shotguns. The ability to stay on target and reacquire your sight picture is greatly enhanced.

[Mesa Tactical]

As said above the "competition stance" is what is taught today in line infantry units (except for grabbing the font sight base, weird). Shooting bladed like that is calling back to the days before body armor (which I remember).

Oh, aye, I was referring to the grabbing the gas port business.

These days anyone with a "tactical" job description will want to stand with the long guns right out in front of his body, not bladed, which is why we are making stocks with reduced length of pull.

[Ruiner]

Yep, that "competition" stance has been around for a looooong time. I was exposed to and picked up that stance watching a competition a long time ago. It isn't a magpul thing. There are slight variations of it. I shoot closer to how Jerry Miculek does it, that feels more natural to me.

[HighLander51]

So, I notice that competition rifle shooters have a weird stance. To me it looks unnatural and odd.

Well, except that the shooter is not wearing safety glasses, and he has a sling. That is not done in competition.

Jerry has the right competition stance, called aggressive.

[Dion]

Well, except that the shooter is not wearing safety glasses, and he has a sling. That is not done in competition.

He can also use some hair product. A hat perhaps.

[Wicked Pete]

Ever seen the stance where they twist the front arm (double jointed fashion) for accuracy? I've never tried it, looks weird.

[Ruiner]

Ever seen the stance where they twist the front arm (double jointed fashion) for accuracy? I've never tried it, looks weird.

This?


Yes I do it sometimes when shooting offhand standing. It's a very steady position. Try it sometime.

[gwl]

When shooting from cover, you can use any stance you please. I recommend the send-as-much-lead-downrange-without-getting-killed stance.

I like that shooting stance.