Another Evans story! It just keeps getting better!

[Fjold]

Go in and ask about buying one and when he hands over the S&W tell him that you were really looking for a Colt. Report back on what they say.

[SemiAutoSam]

Been there done that. well not really been there as im 500 miles or so north of him.

I did however call and ask for the Colt or Bushmaster California legal rifle. and the person that I was handed off to talk to just mentioned that they have the S&W brand AR Rifle and are out of the Colt and Bushmaster at the moment. LOL He suggested I speak with Evan this morning however I was occupied with other business and did not have the time to call back.

Go in and ask about buying one and when he hands over the S&W tell him that you were really looking for a Colt. Report back on what they say.

[jumbopanda]

Welded shut magwells!

[bwiese]

yeah I think it would be a waste of time.....I just think its funny that he uses offlist lowers welded shut instead of the colt/bushmaster lower he used before....Ill bet he got talked to by the DOJ

No, he didn't get talked to by DOJ. Evan's had DOJ by the balls.

The DOJ FD did apparently have a half-day long meeting to deal with this. Iggy went way off the reservation throwing out an approval of a listed gun because "the mods took it out of series status".

To keep this legal and clean up the situation:
(1) they'd have to remove Bushmaster from the list;
(2) true Colt AR-15s would not be regarded as named and would have to by model number (R6000, 6600, etc.)
(3) Colt "Match Targets", etc. would go by Colt model #s too (MT6000, etc)
(4) existing guns sold by Evan's would have to be 'remanufactured' with a new "manufacturer": "Evan's/Colt" per CA law, and this possibly raises interesting Federal issues.

It appears some or all of the above happened.

This will offer additional help to anyone (admittedly a small population) popped for a listed Colt receiver or a list Colt receiver built into a non-Cat 3 rifle.

[megavolt121]

No, he didn't get talked to by DOJ. Evan's had DOJ by the balls.

The DOJ FD did apparently have a half-day long meeting to deal with this. Iggy went way off the reservation throwing out an approval of a listed gun because "the mods took it out of series status".

To keep this legal and clean up the situation:
(1) they'd have to remove Bushmaster from the list;
(2) true Colt AR-15s would not be regarded as named and would have to by model number (R6000, 6600, etc.)
(3) Colt "Match Targets", etc. would go by Colt model #s too (MT6000, etc)
(4) existing guns sold by Evan's would have to be 'remanufactured' with a new "manufacturer": "Evan's/Colt" per CA law, and this possibly raises interesting Federal issues.

It appears some or all of the above happened.

This will offer additional help to anyone (admittedly a small population) popped for a listed Colt receiver or a list Colt receiver built into a non-Cat 3 rifle.

I'm a bit confused, what does the owner of a Evan's welded Colt/Bushmaster do now? If they removed Bushmaster from the list, does that mean I can buy a Bushmaster lower?

[bridgeport]

The "Evans letter" states that the changes in the "receiver" are of a degree considered to remove the receiver from series status. The issue of list or no list was not
a factor at that time as that was before the whole issue of "off list" became viable in any sense. One would have to go back to that frame of reference to
understand the basis for the exemption "out of series". Once the magwell was
welded shut the receiver ( is to be) condidered (not) an AR-15 type as it would have (no capacity) to accept a detachable magazine like an AR-15,even though the name is still printed on the side in the same way that the
LE only markings had no meaning after sunset of the Fed AWB. Although this might appear to be the same as fixing a magwell with a detach/nondetach
10 round mag it is not, or at least they say it is not. Whether this fellow "Iggy" had the AUTHORITY to make this determination or not, the determination has been apparently accepted by the powers that be that (to use the words of the calguns community) the receiver has been "Neutered" enough to satisfy the law. This whole issue does raise many questions and does perhaps leave open the possiblility of some type of action against Evans, Cali-Bushmaster or the state, by a person who purchased one of the rifles/receivers that was sold under the "determination".

[tenpercentfirearms]

Basically before the OLL days, the DOJ gave Evans a bone and people with lots of money bought it. That was all fine and dandy until the OLL came along and suddenly everythign the CA DOJ has done in the past came under closer scrutiny. This scrutiny intensified when the CA DOJ tried to fight back and issue their new regulations regarding the definitions of "capable of accepting a detachable magazine".

After some careful analysis, people realized that the firearms the CA DOJ approved to be modified by Evans, no matter what their magazine well status were indeed listed rifles and were by name assault weapons. Well maybe since some of the Colt AR15s are not actually listed because they have specific model numbers. This situation would be very nasty for the DOJ since they approved firearms that maybe they shouldn't have approved.

Now as a result, the DOJ is starting to defer all opinions to the local DAs. They will most likely not be issuing anymore letters of opinion on anyone's rifle designs. Most recently they have started to waffle on DSA's CA Legal FALs.

Basically when we stirred up the pot with OLLs, a consequence was the DOJ will stop giving any opinions because they do not want to approve what we all know to be within the law and convince those on the fense that they should buy into this game. If they did that, sales would increase and the streets would be flowing with blood (or as we have seen life would just go on).

Now the good thing is for those of you who can read the law and don't need to ask the master for permission, the DOJ not issuing letters enables us to do things that they might otherwise wish to say no on, with no actual basis in the law.

[peter455]

hmmm I wonder....maybe ill jupmp on the grenade for everyone go back in there and ask

It's obvious you don't like these people so why don't you just stay out of there and leave them be?

[bridgeport]

Despite the best intentions of the DOJ and in spite of the off list lower phenomenon, The Evans letter was wrtitten, and distributed publicly for the purpose of "certifying legality" of the welded magwell modification for public sale, which has been ongoing now for at least a couple of years if not more
so this must have some meaning/ standing.

[M. Sage]

Despite the best intentions of the DOJ and in spite of the off list lower phenomenon, The Evans letter was wrtitten, and distributed publicly for the purpose of "certifying legality" of the welded magwell modification for public sale, which has been ongoing now for at least a couple of years if not more so this must have some meaning/ standing.

Actually, no. It doesn't. 12276 starts with:

12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.pdf

Still semiautomatic. Fixed mag? Doesn't matter if it's named. I suppose if Evans were selling with single-shot or bolt action uppers, or uppers with no gas port, then it'd be hunky dory.

It's obvious you don't like these people so why don't you just stay out of there and leave them be?

Because it's fun to watch a train wreck? Or it's even more fun to mess with people who are completely hide-bound and refuse to see outside the FUD they've bought into, and won't believe anything but the FUD, even knowing full-well what it is.

Messing with someone's very flawed, and badly incorrect notion of reality? Really fun.

[bridgeport]

You are correct on the law, and I have no quarrel with you on that issue. The point I wish to make is that the DOJ stepped in it via the letter. Obviously, certain FFL's have sold these to the public with the knowlege of the DOJ and have therefore conspired in a possible No-No with the cooperation of the very agency which is supposed to enforce said state laws, This in and of itself opens up a wholly different can of worms both for the seller of the firearm, the buyer of the firearm, the state officials who
wrote the determination and god only knows what the heck else! Next,If the Doj cannot makes heads nor tails of the law,
how might we expect the 58 DA's to do so. This is outrageous.

[hoffmang]

And bridge... that mess only benefits law abiding gun owners who want to see laws that shouldn't be on the books disappear.

-Gene

[SemiAutoSam]

EDIT: the NOOB that listed an ad for a Bushmaster California legal lower receiver finally mentioned after a lot of poking and prodding that his Rifle was a Bushmaster Carbon 15 and not one of Evans pieces of scrap aluminum.


We may have one of Evans victims among us.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=704562&postcount=1

[M. Sage]

You are correct on the law, and I have no quarrel with you on that issue. The point I wish to make is that the DOJ stepped in it via the letter. Obviously, certain FFL's have sold these to the public with the knowlege of the DOJ and have therefore conspired in a possible No-No with the cooperation of the very agency which is supposed to enforce said state laws, This in and of itself opens up a wholly different can of worms both for the seller of the firearm, the buyer of the firearm, the state officials who
wrote the determination and god only knows what the heck else! Next,If the Doj cannot makes heads nor tails of the law,
how might we expect the 58 DA's to do so. This is outrageous.

Well, now that you put it that way... yeah, I agree. I'm not exactly sure how useful it'd be to eradicate the law (FWIW, but I get my hands dirty for a living), but it's definitely a tool to fight its enforcement.

[bridgeport]

Hoffman, You have managed to say in one sentence what I have been trying to say in my last few posts.