Exactly what laws are you breaking if you carry a pistol without a permit?

[iareConfusE]

They are, but what do you do? Hope that Mr. Bad dude won't pull the trigger or have a say in whether you go home or not.
I carry at work, I love my kids to Damn much to let some POS take me out.

Don't you work at a gun store where you have express permission to do so? Would you still carry even if you weren't given permission? I have a feeling that asking my boss for permission to CCW on his property would actually get me fired..

[Librarian]

Why? You are saying if you worked for someone and had express permission by them to carry loaded on the premises (think gunstore, jewelry store) you are at legal risk to carry that concealed in the business premises? I am not saying you are wrong, but wondering about how you come to that conclusion.

It's the language of 12026.

(a)Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

That, in my opinion, is an exemption for just the owner; that is, the phrase "your place of residence" has the same meaning of "your" as "your place of business".

Too long to quote, but read Machtinger's chapter "When can you carry concealed or loaded guns?".

[HardHatMan]

Just open the register and give him all the money, show him where the safe is and open it up, tell him where all the valuables are and which snack foods are the best. Hopefully you get to live. The law only punishes the law abiding.

QFT.

We have the problem in Maryland where the Maryland State Police (in charge of reviewing CCW apps and issuing them) only sees property and money as being deemed worth to defend. Unless you have documented assaults/threats against you, and this still won't guarantee you will get the permit. I think 2% of issued permits in MD are issued to people who have been assaulted. The rest are people who transport money, make large deposits, or carry an Rx pad. I want to move to VA.

[SJgunguy24]

It's the language of 12026.

That, in my opinion, is an exemption for just the owner; that is, the phrase "your place of residence" has the same meaning of "your" as "your place of business".

Too long to quote, but read Machtinger's chapter "When can you carry concealed or loaded guns?".

So basically Quarterbore gunner should be dead, along with the other 2 that were working that night.
That's what I think about when I'm at work, what if that one nut job walks in, will I be ready?

[Librarian]

So basically Quarterbore gunner should be dead, along with the other 2 that were working that night.
That's what I think about when I'm at work, what if that one nut job walks in, will I be ready?

Good Lord, where did you get that?

I don't recall enough of QBG's incident to comment knowledgably, but "should be"?

[Matt C]

It's the language of 12026.

That, in my opinion, is an exemption for just the owner; that is, the phrase "your place of residence" has the same meaning of "your" as "your place of business".

Agreed, but who are the owners of a corporation?

[Librarian]

Agreed, but who are the owners of a corporation?

Stockholders, of course, but that status does not grant administrative authority.

Machtinger talks about "proprietary, possessory or substantial ownership" interest in a business. He says

A "possessory" interest means you have the right to exclude other people from the workplace and the right to control activities at the workplace.

and cites People v Barela (1991) 234 Cal.App.3rd Supp 15, 20, whose conclusion is

Appellant argues that the Legislature, by expressly disapproving People v. Melton, supra, 206 Cal. App. 3d 580, meant to allow employees such as convenience store clerks to carry concealed weapons at work. This argument ignores the fact that not every employee's workplace is a "place of business" within the meaning of Penal Code section 12026. The legislative statement of purpose makes clear that an employee must have a possessory interest in his or her workplace in order for that workplace to be considered the employee's "place of business" under section 12026. Only those employees who have the right to exclude others from their workplace, and the right to control activities there, may carry concealed weapons at work without a permit or license. [234 Cal. App. 3d Supp. 21] It is therefore ordered that the judgment in municipal court action No. 1213585 be affirmed.

[Matt C]

Stockholders, of course, but that status does not grant administrative authority.

Machtinger talks about "proprietary, possessory or substantial ownership" interest in a business. He says and cites People v Barela (1991) 234 Cal.App.3rd Supp 15, 20, whose conclusion is

Great info, thanks!

[RickyB]

So in my own little month-2-month leased cabinet shop unit ( where I sometimes work alone and late), I'm allowed to keep a loaded gun in my desk drawer? To protect myself if need be?

(sorry guys, but this state's gun laws just confuse the hell out of me)...

[Librarian]

So in my own little month-2-month leased cabinet shop unit ( where I sometimes work alone and late), I'm allowed to keep a loaded gun in my desk drawer? To protect myself if need be?

(sorry guys, but this state's gun laws just confuse the hell out of me)...

Yes. Or, if you like, as sole-proprietor, you may carry concealed.

[RickyB]

Yes. Or, if you like, as sole-proprietor, you may carry concealed.

Thanx for that.

(and btw, I meant as a fully legal & registered gun owner)......

[mag360]

Rather be tried by 12 than carred by 6

[Coded-Dude]

from my understanding any person who owns or is in control of(through contract) any property, may carry on that property(gov't property not included), they can also grant permission to anyone to do the same. the definition of public access is where it gets convoluted.

if there is no public access there is no real problem
if there is restricted or limited public access you're generally ok
(but that really depends on the type of "public access")
open to the public is a no go.

also a manager's consent is not good enough, it has to be the person that owns or leases the property

you will still have to follow all the regular laws. you cannot step outside in public(if your in an office/shop/studio/etc), gfsz's still have to be abided. it has to be for personal protection, if you are protecting the company you need a guard card. etc etc etc

i have permission, but i currently just carry LUCC.

if you have one, check the "company/employee manual" and see if it references firearms. either way, your still gonna have to obtain consent from owner. if you park on company property, their rules still apply in the parking lot. however, if you park on public property you can carry LUCC and leave it in the car.

IANAL