When to defend with a gun

[moosegun]

In looking at these posts, makes me really wonder. I am a guy closer to 70 than 60 years old, and am a 100% disabled Vet (due to Agent Orange, strokes and otherwise) can not lift 50 pounds and carry it. So, a fist fight or wrestling match is no option for me.

Living in Calif.

So, as the saying goes, "am too old to take a good *** whipping and too young to die" so will just have to do something.

So, what options do I have? Seems like getting crunched or killed or living with "bubba" in some hell prison is my choice.
Guess, I might have to take my chances with a jury. Though in Calif. what is wrong with that is "no small thing".
Any thoughts on what/how to deal with this?

If I were a jury/state prosecutor I would not judge you same as some strapping 20-30 years old. A punch to a 20 year old may be just a black eye but the same punch to an elderly can kill him.. so a punch can be seen as deadly threat. it all depends.

[moosegun]

Threadcrapping is against the rules on CGN.

agreed. He should go do that on some other forum. I thought everyone on Calguns were helpful and cool ppl.. I stand corrected..

[FatCity67]

Simple line oft repeated ad nauseum:

Judged by 12 or carried by 6.

[Peter W Bush]

I own liquor stores. This is what I would do. NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND DO NOT LISTEN TO ME

1. Shoot
2. Shoot
3. Shoot
4. Shoot
5. Shoot

If somebody threatened me and said they had a weapon and I believed they did, I would draw on them (and I have before, a good amount of times). If for a second I was in reasonable fear of my life, I would shoot until the threat stops. The last time I drew on a guy he had his hand in his pocket and said he had a knife. He didn't see my weapon but it was aimed right at his chest, loaded, hammer back, safety off. My worker was calling the police while it was going on. It felt like I had the muzzle aimed at him for an hour but it was really a few minutes. I was VERY firm with him. "STOP! DO NOT MOVE! SLOWLY REMOVE YOUR HANDS FROM YOUR POCKETS AND STEP AWAY" Be careful.. The scumbag and/or his family might end up living off of you forever.

[Peter W Bush]

If you pull a gun during a fistfight you're toast-you're going to do time-You cant meet less than deadly force with deadly force-So take your *** whoopin like a man-
If they use a deadly weapon against you-bury them-
Multiple assailants?-thats a sticky one-but you are likely to be charged-

Oh please. NOBODY will come to MY business and lay even a single finger on me without me doing everything possible to make sure they regret it forever. I would rather put one in a criminals head then let him land even a single punch in my store. Did you forget what just happened to a Giants fan? I don't recall anybody using weapons.

[Bryansix]

Oh please. NOBODY will come to MY business and lay even a single finger on me without me doing everything possible to make sure they regret it forever. I would rather put one in a criminals head then let him land even a single punch in my store. Did you forget what just happened to a Giants fan? I don't recall anybody using weapons.

+1

When you are being assaulted and battered by a thief, you don't play by the rules. They are already known to be mentally unstable. Kick him in the balls then draw on him and tell him to GTFO.

[appagohm]

Two sides, both well thought out. Those who do not own a business and don't deal with what we go through might not understand. I have never unholstered my weapon, and just switched from a auto pistol to 357 wheel gun (Concealed). I have had Knives, srew drivers pointed at me and usually just talk them out of it. I talk to local LEO and they say as long as i feel treat in anyway, i have the right to defend myself. For the most part 99 percent of the people are great, it's that 1 percent that i worry about.

There are many cases which rules either way. I believe in the 70's worker of a store thought a person stole a drink, then he asked the person if he did the person got angry and punched the worker, worker unholstered and fired.

Worker currently in jail, person no longer with us.

But there are several other cases since then where worker is praised for bravery and person is either no longer with us or in hospital.

The best way is to avoid conflict by all means possible.

[SuperHyperJer]

I didn't read all the posts, and I've never shot anyone, but what I feel is this.
Killing's the last thing you wanna do, for both ethical and legal reasons. Only if yours or someone elses life is in danger. If you get robbed, even the robber's life is worth more than the money that'd be stolen, and I'm not including the legal stuff. Matter of fact, part of why I want to take and be proficient in martial arts is so I only need a gun if my opponent's using one, and may be if I don't have an opportunity to surprise him. Animals are another story, but there's a lot of annoying legalities with those, too, so if one's charging at you and you don't believe you have time for warning shots, prepare for an extra difficult court proceeding.

[Stormfeather]

Im LAUGHING at all of the FUD getting tossed around here with all these totally INVALID opinions.

• My friend owns a stereo/rims place on Florin Road in Sacto, had 3 dudes walk in, one was pulling out a pistol, he beats the guy to the punch and starts laying down rounds with his personal sidearm. They fled the scene, he calls the cops, the cops come, ask for statements, retrieve his firearm for background, tell him good job, be safe, and less than a month later gets his gun back.

• Another friends family owns a liquor store in the Howe Ave area of Sacto, ran into the same scenario, except the guy came up to the counter and threatened that he "had a gun". Perp swings at my buddy and then attempts to flee the scene with a 12 of beer, buddy discharges 3 rounds at the guys back in the store, then calls cops. Cops arrive, look at the tapes, take the gun, and its back in his possession in less than a month.

Real scenarios, real friends of mine, both of whom I lent firearms to while they waited for the return of their guns. So unless youve got personal experience, lets hold the FUD to a minimum. Granted, your best bet is to carry, and do what you feel you need to do if you feel theres imminent danger to yourself or others. But as far as the whole going to jail and all that BS, drop it unless youve been there.

[ETD1010]

If you pull a gun during a fistfight you're toast-you're going to do time-You cant meet less than deadly force with deadly force-So take your *** whoopin like a man-
If they use a deadly weapon against you-bury them-
Multiple assailants?-thats a sticky one-but you are likely to be charged-

Last I checked, it is possible to be beaten to death. It's not like the old days where people would just duke it out and be done with it. I would draw my weapon if I was swung at. I have ZERO hand-to-hand combat skills or training. I have NO idea with the assailant's training is. I don't know if he has a knife and will bring it out. i don't know if he has a gun and will pull it out. I'm not the kind of person to pick fights, or challenge people to a fight. If I am the target of a beating, it's not because I challenged them. Therefore I would assume he is out just to beat me up. I would be in fear of great bodily harm in that instant. when i pull my pistol, he should stop swinging. I won't pull the trigger unless I feel it's the only recourse to stop an attacker.

[sanjosebmx]

Im LAUGHING at all of the FUD getting tossed around here with all these totally INVALID opinions.

• My friend owns a stereo/rims place on Florin Road in Sacto, had 3 dudes walk in, one was pulling out a pistol, he beats the guy to the punch and starts laying down rounds with his personal sidearm. They fled the scene, he calls the cops, the cops come, ask for statements, retrieve his firearm for background, tell him good job, be safe, and less than a month later gets his gun back.

• Another friends family owns a liquor store in the Howe Ave area of Sacto, ran into the same scenario, except the guy came up to the counter and threatened that he "had a gun". Perp swings at my buddy and then attempts to flee the scene with a 12 of beer, buddy discharges 3 rounds at the guys back in the store, then calls cops. Cops arrive, look at the tapes, take the gun, and its back in his possession in less than a month.

Real scenarios, real friends of mine, both of whom I lent firearms to while they waited for the return of their guns. So unless youve got personal experience, lets hold the FUD to a minimum. Granted, your best bet is to carry, and do what you feel you need to do if you feel theres imminent danger to yourself or others. But as far as the whole going to jail and all that BS, drop it unless youve been there.

I like the 'real world' examples here....

[fiddletown]

Im LAUGHING at all of the FUD getting tossed around here with all these totally INVALID opinions.

• My friend owns a stereo/rims place on Florin Road in Sacto, had 3 dudes walk in, one was pulling out a pistol, he beats the guy to the punch and starts laying down rounds with his personal sidearm. They fled the scene, he calls the cops, the cops come, ask for statements, retrieve his firearm for background, tell him good job, be safe, and less than a month later gets his gun back.

• Another friends family owns a liquor store in the Howe Ave area of Sacto, ran into the same scenario, except the guy came up to the counter and threatened that he "had a gun". Perp swings at my buddy and then attempts to flee the scene with a 12 of beer, buddy discharges 3 rounds at the guys back in the store, then calls cops. Cops arrive, look at the tapes, take the gun, and its back in his possession in less than a month.

Real scenarios, real friends of mine, both of whom I lent firearms to while they waited for the return of their guns. ...

Yea, well sometimes it works out nicely and sometimes it doesn't. Talk with --

Larry Hickey, in gun friendly Arizona thought it was a "good shoot." He was arrested, spent 71 days in jail, went through two different trials ending in hung juries, was forced to move from his house, etc., before the DA decided it was a good shoot and dismissed the charges.

Mark Abshire in Oaklahoma thought it was a good shoot. Nonetheless, despite this happening on his own lawn in a fairly gun-friendly state with a "Stand Your Ground" law, he was arrested, went to jail, charged, lost his job and his house, and spent two and a half years in the legal grinder before finally being acquitted.

Harold Fish, also in gun friendly Arizona, thought it was a good shot. But he was still convicted and sent to prison. He won his appeal, his conviction was overturned, and a new trial was ordered. The DA chose to dismiss the charges rather than retry Mr. Fish.

You might think it was a good shoot, but your opinion will always be second guessed and open to question. You might think that you had no choice, but the DA and/or the grand jury might still disagree.

[x22]

I wonder shoot to kill or shoot in the air to scare thiefs when there out on the street in front of my house,breaking into my car?Or most recently my trailer that had tools in but when they broke in it was empty;but it could have been full?

[ro442173]

When I'm afraid for my life.

[x22]

guess i wasnt afraid for my life but my daughter sleeping with her window being 50feet away was pretty scary.