Firearms Training Experiences - Tell me what you've enjoyed

[n2k]

To all who have gone through some type of firearms training course (Military, LE, Civilian (Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc.))

1. What was the "thing" that made it a positive experience for you....

2. What items were provided, if any, (shirts, gear, tools), that you thought were a nice parting type gift from the training....

3. What is the one thing that would have made it a better experience for you....

[Ed_in_Sac]

DFT-- Having years of experience in handgun target (paper and steel) as well as some PPC open matches. Rudy totally changed the way I looked at firearms and the skills needed for self defense. Parting gift after two day course, I bought a cap and tipped him fifty bucks, he deserved more.

I have had great fun with some other California schools as well. Am fairly new to IDPA and jump on every intro or skill builder course I can (long way to go).

The best parting gift is always the compliment: "We would like to have you come back and shoot with us again (training or competition)." For me that far surpasses any bauble.

[n2k]

Here is another question:

What was the most enjoyable type of course you have experienced?

1.Specific discipline focused: (hand gun, rifle, shotgun)

2.General Overall skill building

3.Tactical

4.Doesn't really matter as long as you are shooting......

[Velocity]

After years of shooting holes in paper at my local range, I took 2 weekends of Threat-Focused tactical training with several top instructors.

It was a life changing experience in many ways.

All the instruction I ever took before that was the standard Weaver stance, bring gun up to sighting level, two hand grip, sight and shoot. Awesome for putting holes in paper.

During the threat focused training weekends I had my eyes opened very wide to some scary realities.

First: It takes an expert 1.5 to 1.7 seconds to unholster, two hand grip, bring gun up to eye level to sight, sight and shoot the first round. In actual practice we learned that in that time a Bad Guy (BG) who is not terribly concerned about good shooting posture can get off several rounds at you. That translates to game over, you lose.

We learned that there is a HUGE advantage to being able to start to fire as soon as the gun clears the holster. With techniques like "elbow up, elbow down", after just a few hours of good practice, the group was able to draw and first ON TARGET as soon as the gun cleared leather. Average time to get first shots off: under .7 seconds, better for some who had the right kind of holster.

Then as soon as you start firing, keep firing as you bring the gun up to mid level and then up to right under eye level, firing continuously at the BG. Remember when bullets are flying at you, you don't stand still. So this puts the BG off his game. Even if the first shot or two don't hit center mass, the brain still stops for a few fractions of a second if you get hit ANYWHERE, and in that time you can aim more accurately and get shots dead center mass easily.

What we learned is that the guy who shoots first typically wins the gun fight.

While there IS a good role for Weaver stance, sighting, etc, in a SD emergency, getting first shots off fast is a major advantage.

We also learned that if you are firing a continuous hail of bullets, you need more than 6 rounds in the mag, so we saw an amazing advantage to a) NOT using a .45 (since these are typically 5 or 6 round mags)... b) NOT using a low capacity mag as in many 1911s (even though these are great guns, they don't typically have enough capacity to shoot continuously without having to change mags... and c) using the RIGHT holster.... you cannot imagine how important that was shown to be.

When all is said and done, we saw truly incredible advantages to using a single stack 9mm with a full mag, one in the chamber, and having extra mags quickly available. Those few extra bullets without having to drop and change mags made a BIG difference.

It turns our that the traditional thinking about 'stopping power' of a, say .45, was much less important that having speed to first shots, and more capacity. A 9mm JHP +P round will do the job very nicely at most gunfight distances, especially if you get 3, 4, 5 or more rounds into the BG very quickly.

We also learned that like muscle memory, learning to use peripheral vision and training the eye-brain-hand connection with practice, you can hit center mass (or bullseye) very easily WITHOUT any sighting. In less than 3 hours of practice, I was able to hit a Coke can at 60 feet 8 out of 10 times from the draw with NO SIGHTING AT ALL.

It was quite impressive. Instructor was 'Brownie' from Threat-Focused Tactical Training, and it was the best investment I've ever made for SD emergency training.

A link for you all:

http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

IMHO this was the best training I ever had. And I only described a fraction of what the training included.

Martin

[9mmepiphany]

I've been to a lot of different training for both work (LE) and personal enjoyment. I've also taught in both group settings and 1:1. From that prospective, here's what I have found:

1. The thing that makes a class a positive experience is that the instructor is more interested in you learning the correct techniques, than in showing you what they can do. The ability to teach to different learning styles and with different personal choices in equipment.

2. I don't put a lot into the value of swag...it's nice because everyone likes something for "free". My goal is to leave with a skill I can build on, on my own, without direction...meaning an understanding of the technique so I can self-correct in practice.

During a 3 day class, some of the most interesting times were during means we shared with students. Some of those friendships have lasted many years after the class is over.

3. The major downer...unless you are going to an established school...are usually the facilities. I've found that most ranges across the country leave a lot to be desired for training that involves any dynamic movement.

4. The most enjoyable classes are where most of the students are at about the same skill level. That way no one is bored and no one is being left behind.

The most common error I've seen are folks who take a tactical/defense/competition course when they don't have their fundamental (not the same as basic) shooting skills down. How can they evaluate if a different technique is an improvement, when they can't shoot to a level high enough to measure the difference.

[mif_slim]

I find that any type of firearms training is good weither basic or advance. I like to go back to basics every now-n-then just to refresh my muscle memory again and learn it all over. Theres never enough training and you cant ever get too good to stop training.

[Ed_in_Sac]

Agree with what 9mm says. Want to add that the most enjoyable handgun classes I have attended are two Zombie Shoots. Why, because they are just a good day of fun and in one class we moved A LOT! Most classes don't seem to stress movement enough, JMO!

[Steyrlp10]

I'm going to go with 9MM's comments too

1. I had a great time at Masters' Camp in Colorado Springs because the range was equipped with state-of-the-art equipment where it allowed me to just concentrate on shooting (not changing targets, fussing with legless benches where my primo stuff would end up shattered on the ground, etc.) The coach was our last Silver Medalist in Pistol, so he definitely walked the walk and talked the talk.

2. Tactical shotgun with steel plates. My teacher and bud was not someone who lacked patience for the beginner. It's a real turn off when you're trying hard to learn, soak up info, do your best -- and the guy acts like he wants to be anywhere else but teaching you. I've had that in a beginning shotgun course with clay birds -- and the guy didn't do much to inspire me.

When it's my turn to teach basic pistol, I try to keep all those experiences in mind and not come across in a negative manner to the other people. A little encouragement while stressing safety goes a long way in making a good impression on someone.

[9mmepiphany]

Any class where I teach and I...
1. don't get shot is a good class...I have some great stories
2. put a little cash in my pocket or at least get fed is better than good
3. have a few laughs, makes it worthwhile
4. make new friends is a bonus
5. do not have a gun pointed at me, is unusual

[PsychGuy274]

My girlfriend asked me to officially train her. I have only taken her out to the range and informally gone over some very basic ideas and pretty much just let her have fun shooting.

Well, I agreed to formally train her and she's all excited because she watches me when I'm running dry fire drills and sees all of the 'cool' things that I do. So I go to the second bedroom and come out with an airsoft pistol and she looked disappointed. I told her if she actually wants to be a pistol shooter that she needs to start in the right place.

We went over the four golden rules, how to chamber check/safety check, how to hold the gun properly, how to load and unload it properly, etc., etc. Even though she looked kind of disappointed she still came up to me the next day asking when we could have another lesson!

***The best things I have learned about shooting, I have learned while teaching someone. Because people that don't know what they are doing will ask questions and you're first instinct is to say, "Well, because that's just how you do it!" Then you realize that that's not a proper answer and you actually have to think about what you are doing and how to explain it properly.

The best way to learn is to teach.

[Subotai]

I really like low-light shooting with multiple moving targets. Your blood gets pumping!

[mif_slim]

What's the four golden rule??

[Massan]

Tac team movements with sim rounds. Gets your blood pumping and a decent insight as to how you will perform when SHTF.

[PsychGuy274]

What's the four golden rule??

Shut up

[Black Majik]

I have two categories of classes I've mainly participated in, the "tactical/defensive" classes, and the "gaming" type classes. While I think I enjoy the tactical/defensive classes moreso as a hanging out atmosphere because I just don't feel like there is as much information to absorb as there is if you were lectured by a USPSA GM.

The two types of classes offer very different types of shooting application. I may be in the minority in this, but I gain a lot more knowledge after sitting with the GMs. They break down everything in detail. Why split times dont matter, how to shave time off by target transitions, how to confidently pull off that first shot off the holster, how to track your front sight while transitioning to the next target, how to prep the trigger during the recoil, how to become more efficient in your movement, how to lead a moving target, reloads and shooting and etc etc...

Tactical classes pretty much cover the same thing. How to draw, present the gun, malfunction drills, target transition, it just feels like a dumbed down version of the gaming type classes at a much slower pace. Round counts during classes seem to be less too.

You really see the different mentalities in the handgun section, especially threads asking what a good group size is. From the tactical/defensive group you'll get responses such as "as long as I can get all shots in COM" in so and so seconds its good. Then the IPSC/USPSA shooters you'll get so and so group punching out the X-ring at so and so distance. I've yet to really see a tactical class to really, REALLY focus on marksmanship, or to really teach how to punch out the centers of your X-ring. Something as fundamental as marksmanship seem to be overlooked in those types of classes.

But, FWIW, it's just what I've noticed.