Point shooting

[elsolo]

Well aimed shooting can degrade to point shooting rather easily under stress.
The opposite rarely occurs.

How much I need to confirm my aim absolutely depends on the target size, distance, and potential negatives of a missed shot.

Anything further than arm's distance requires some visual confirmation, be it as little as looking down the slide like one would a shotgun barrel, to maintaining equal amounts of daylight on both sides of the front sight as you slowly squeeze the trigger; usually it is somewhere in between.

Shooting IPSC or IDPA is a great way to show yourself how easy it is to miss an "easy" target at close range, as well as continually reinforce the need to aim every shot (to varying degrees) and prove that really is the fastest way to actually hit your target at anything more than arm's length away.

[elsolo]

I just qualified with point shooting for the PC832 firearms course. It's part of the curriculum now. You must put 12 rounds inside the 7 ring at 7 yards. Shoot 6, reload, then shoot another 6 within a 30 second time period.

I had never done this before - always looked at my sights. It seems hard at first....you want to bring that gun up just a bit higher so you can catch those sights.

After a few dozen rounds though, you get the uncanny ability to point the gun and just "know" where it's going to shoot....I found I could get all my shots within the 9 ring easily with this method, and that was from holster draw.

I'm going to practice this way more now. It definitely has it's place. I scored perfectly on that segment of the test. I'm sure anyone could with some basic instruction.

How do they verify that you are not aiming?

[Turbinator]

The fast shooters on Top Shot (JJ for example) appear to be using the sights. I guess it comes down to training and practice. I personally like verifying a sight picture with the sights. I would not personally shave the sights off my stuff.

Turby

[PatriotnMore]

practice, practice, point shooting and muscle memory, good stuff.

[The Director]

How do they verify that you are not aiming?

Pretty obvious by where the gun is - it's literally at my shoulder level and all you have to do is stand BESIDE me to see that I am not using sights. I thought the same thing of others when I stood behind them....I was certain they were using their sights. But the gun is 8-10" lower than it normally would be.

And this stuff works. Another tool in the arsenal. Also the other part of the qualification is one handed shooting from the hip, at 3 yards. 6 shots inside the seven ring, reload, six shots inside the seven ring. All mine were in the 9 ring.

You know what this is similar to? Something like Cowboy action shooting or something. Let's not forget there are a ton of GREAT shooters that do all kinds of gun tricks where the sights aren't used. Shooting from the hip is one of them.

None of this replaces shooting with sights, it gives me more options.

If I'm being rushed by an attacker 3 yards away, I feel confident I can draw right out of the holster and put 6 right in his center mass within a couple seconds. Ask me how I know!

[The Director]

The fast shooters on Top Shot (JJ for example) appear to be using the sights. I guess it comes down to training and practice. I personally like verifying a sight picture with the sights. I would not personally shave the sights off my stuff.

Turby

No need to shave sights off for point shooting. Just another tool. Point and hip shooting is being taught in addition to sight shooting in police academies across the country. It's for when there is no time to establish a sight picture.

And for all those that swear that all you need is an extra second to get your sight picture, try shooting from 3 yards, draw from holster, 6 rounds, and try and do it in under 4 seconds, which is very generous. If a guy is charging you full steam ahead, 3 yards away, he is gonna be on you in MUCH less than 4 seconds.

Most cops should be able to draw and put one in center mass before the guy is on him. Very hard to learn at first but once you do it - wow. what a useful skill.

[elsolo]

Pretty obvious by where the gun is - it's literally at my shoulder level and all you have to do is stand BESIDE me to see that I am not using sights. I thought the same thing of others when I stood behind them....I was certain they were using their sights. But the gun is 8-10" lower than it normally would be.

And this stuff works. Another tool in the arsenal. Also the other part of the qualification is one handed shooting from the hip, at 3 yards. 6 shots inside the seven ring, reload, six shots inside the seven ring. All mine were in the 9 ring.

You know what this is similar to? Something like Cowboy action shooting or something. Let's not forget there are a ton of GREAT shooters that do all kinds of gun tricks where the sights aren't used. Shooting from the hip is one of them.

None of this replaces shooting with sights, it gives me more options.

If I'm being rushed by an attacker 3 yards away, I feel confident I can draw right out of the holster and put 6 right in his center mass within a couple seconds. Ask me how I know!

Lowering the pistol 10" so you can't use the sights, and must visually confirm by seeing where the slide is pointed to shoot a target directly in front of you isn't really point shooting. The target is directly in front of you and at the same height as your pistol, you can visually confirm the windage and elevation is simply keeping the slide level.

With the target sizes and distances you mention, with a static target and shooting position, there really isn't much visual confirmation needed to hit the target.

You sound pretty jazzed about the courses of fire you had in the class and it obviously gave you confidence that your gun handling skills are quite adequate and well rounded. I highly recommend that you attend a local IDPA or IPSC match and continue to develop your skills.

The courses of fire for PC 832 are ridiculously easy and it's somewhat absurd that it constitutes proof of competant gunhandling for park rangers and animal control.

P.S. Great shooters don't do all sorts of tricks like shooting from the hip, Bob Munden and other entertainment exhibition shooters aren't winning world championships. Doing a parlor trick does not make somebody a great shooter.

[elsolo]

And for all those that swear that all you need is an extra second to get your sight picture, try shooting from 3 yards, draw from holster, 6 rounds, and try and do it in under 4 seconds, which is very generous. .

The standard Bill Drill is nearly identical, except the target is 10 yards out, and a proficient shooter should be able to do it in 2 seconds while USING THE SIGHTS.

[bruceflinch]

Just practicing point shooting is fun!