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My main concern is IF I were to have that and I was out UOCing with the 17 round clip fully loaded, could I potentially land myself in the gulag never to be heard from again? California's gun laws are extremely confusing. I went to the wiki site listed a couple postings up and was really confused. High capacity magazines are illegal but it is not illegal to possess them? HUH???!!!???
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"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"
~Thomas Jefferson~
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
~George Washington~
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And we keep going round and round.../Chris
I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.
You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.Comment
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Deep? Probably not, but that would be 'importing', and that's illegal.
Back to an earlier comment - of course it's the prosecution's responsibility to prove illegal activity. Does anyone carry 'proof' of not being a felon? Of course not - there is no such thing; we go about our daily lives, legally possessing our firearms, and all but the most nervous never think much about it.
I continue to wish that folks would stop obsessing over CA's large-capacity magazine law*. True, it's possible to encounter a poorly informed or poorly motivated LEO who may try to convince you there is some crime associated with possessing or using such mags. But except for the stupidity of it all, I don't think it's much to worry about.
* and for the 'regular capacity' crowd, if you're talking about CA law, you really need to use the CA law terminology. Outside that arena, whatever you like works fine.ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page
Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!Comment
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It's legal to possess large-capacity magazines (that is what the law calls them).
It's legal to possess a disassembled large-capacity magazine and/or parts.
As of 1/1/2000, it's not legal to...
Manufacture
Cause to be manufactured
Import into the state
Keep for sale
Offer or expose for sale
Give
Lend (with certain exceptions)
...a large-capacity magazine.
You can read the law yourself, PC 12020(a)(2) at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=12020-12040
Note that the PC relating to Assault Weapons also prohibits fixed-magazine rifles and pistols with a large-capacity magazine. So no high-caps with a bullet button.Comment
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What's confusing?
That law is, oddly, one of the clearest. It is a crime if one
Note that it does not talk about 'possess' or 'use'.12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000,- manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
- imports into the state,
- keeps for sale, or
- offers or exposes for sale, or
- who gives, or lends,
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page
Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!Comment
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And oddly enough legal to purchase, but not to offer for sale, though as you can imagine there are varied opinions on that./Chris
I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.
You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.Comment
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I think what causes a lot of confusion is a single word, "grandfathered". People assume because they own it before the ban it is "grandfathered" and that is incorrect and causes a lot of confusion. "Grandfathered" refers to something that was banned, but because it was in circulation before the ban the ban doesn't apply to it. This thinking is obviously incorrect. The state of California does not discriminate between pre and post ban mags, all mags regardless of when they were owned must follow the same laws. Sure a mag that is legally here is legally here, but the only way to do that isn't to have owned one before 1/1/2000. A magazine that has never been in California still has to follow the same rules as the magazine that was bought in California in 1999, for instance it cannot be sold to another Californian. Things like possession or usage were never listed in the ban. So is your pre-ban high capacity magazines "grandfathered" in? No, it is just legally owned. It just has to follow the laws as all the other magazines in the world, the only difference is it cannot be imported or re-imported because it is already a "resident" of the state.Comment
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The S&W MP9 was manufactured well after the 2000 ban. It wouldn't be hard to figure out I am new to Cali so explaining possession without fibbing would next to impossible. That is IF I had one of course."What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"
~Thomas Jefferson~
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
~George Washington~
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Possession of high capacity magazines IS NOT illegal!
Manufacturing high capacity magazines IS illegal!
Importing high capacity magazines into the state IS illegal, if they weren't owned by you in CA before 1 Jan 2000.
Selling high capacity magazines IS illegal!
Giving high capacity magazines IS illegal!
Lending high capacity magazines IS illegal!
PC 12020
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.sigpic
If you haven't seen it with your own eyes,
or heard it with your own ears,
don't make it up with your small mind,
or spread it with your big mouth.Comment
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Thanks for all the input. I know what I'm going to do now."What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"
~Thomas Jefferson~
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
~George Washington~
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Innocent until proven guilty. This means that the state has to prove guilt. Just keep your mouth shut. In fact they could prove that the magazines were made after the ban but unless they can prove that you imported or manufactured those magazines they cannot prove that a crime was committed by you. It's only illegal to "import, sell, lend, give or manufacture" so called "high-capacity" magazines in this state.Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison
The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)Comment
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