Potential retinal detachment from .50 BMG muzzle blast?

[Sinixstar]

impactco : in an otherwise perfectly healthy person - yes, the chance of Retinal detachment from shooting is virtually nil.
The issue becomes more relevant if you have an existing condition which would weaken the eyes. If you've had certain eye surgeries in the past, or extreme near sightedness where your retina is stretched too thin...

Really - it's a lot more complicated than any of us (even the dr friend you quoted) are making it out to be.

It's also kind of one of those arguments for arguments sake considering that even though it's possible - the likelihood of it happening is pretty freakin low - barring some rather unique circumstances. If you're at risk for retinal detachment due to shooting, chances are you've already been warned about it by your doctor - and you have a whole list of activities to avoid...

[ohsmily]

My understanding of retinal detachment was that it had to do with heavy recoil - not so much the over pressure and whatnot from the brake. It has more to do with the repeated violent jerking forces your body has to endure when shooting some of the bigger guns out there. It's not just limited to the .50 - but any big bore heavy rifle.

+1

I am wondering where the OP got the notion that retinal detachment happens or is at risk to happen based on the concussion or pressure wave from the muzzle brake????? All examples of retinal detachment that I have ever heard discussed stemmed from the violent recoil of the heavy caliber firearms into the shoulder and accelerating the head backward (after the shoulder push) at a great rate and damaging the eye.

So, again, is there any source of basis for the concern of the muzzle blast/concussion or are we just wasting time? Bueller? Bueller?

[Sinixstar]

+1

I am wondering where the OP got the notion that retinal detachment happens or is at risk to happen based on the concussion or pressure wave from the muzzle brake????? All examples of retinal detachment that I have ever heard discussed stemmed from the violent recoil of the heavy caliber firearms into the shoulder and accelerating the head backward (after the shoulder push) at a great rate and damaging the eye.

So, again, is there any source of basis for the concern of the muzzle blast/concussion or are we just wasting time? Bueller? Bueller?

There are some doctors out there who warn those prone to retinal detachment to avoid certain activities such as diving or skydiving in which you would be subject to rapid and/or extreme changes in pressure.

A lot of this depends on what kind of retinal detachment you're talking about. There's different types of detachment that are caused by different things. Everything from fluid gathering in the eye (in which case pressure changes would have a significant impact), to tissues actually tearing (pressure would have no effect, but rapid acceleration/deceleration might). It also again goes back to what if any disposition you have to retinal detachment..

Like i said - it's FAR more complicated then any of us are making it out to be. Suffice to say the likelihood of it happening is slim.

[bruce_ventura]

I recall chemistry lab courses in my college days in which we used solvents that are totally banned today because of widely accepted toxicity data that didn't exist back then. So just because the correlation between retinal damage and frequent .50 cal rifle shooting doesn't exist today, that doesn't mean we should all proceed blindly (pardon the pun) ahead.

I have a friend who has been a competitive high power shooter and hunter for most of his adult life. He is ~60 years old and recently experienced retinal detachment. So did his wife, who has also done a lot of competitive shooting and hunting. He trains squad designated marksmen for the Army and told me that the Army is limiting the number of .50 cal rounds a soldier fires from a rifle in a day during training. He is very concerned that a history of high power shooting has had something to do with his and his wife's vision issues.

In my professional career I've worked with ballistics, high power lasers, high expolosives and high voltage equipment. I've never had a work related injury worse than a paper cut. I've faired a bit worse in my recreational pursuits (motorcycles, rock climbing, scuba, solo backpackpacking, fishing, shooting, hunting, etc.), but I've never had an overnight hospital stay. That's partly because of providence and partly because I am safety conscious and take every precaution around known dangers, as well as reasonable precautions around potential dangers.

I am 53 years old and my eyesight is very important to me because I work in the field of visual optics. So I am taking some reasonable steps to limit my exposure to .50 cal muzzle blast and recoil. The first step is to get an eye exam by an ophthalmologist. Of course I'll continue shooting .50 cal rifles, but I'll be more conscious of the number of rounds I fire in a day and in a month than I was before. I can and will do simple things that will limit my exposure, like limiting the number of .50 cal sighting rounds, positioning myself further back from the firing line when others are shooting .50 cal, and shooting a wider variety of (lesser) calibers for recreation.

Y'all will do your own thing and that's great too. Whatever you do, have fun and come home safe.

[EBR Works]

Thanks Bruce for adding our lunch discussion points to the thread. Can you tell us what specific number of rounds your friend stated are being allowed per day for Army trainees?

[bruce_ventura]

I think he said 50/day was the limit. I'll ask him the next time I see him.

[bruce_ventura]

There does not appear to be a widespread policy regarding limiting 50 BMG rifle recoil in the Army. It may be a battalion or smaller unit practice.

I discussed this topic with my optometrist yesterday shile she examined my retinas during a visit for new glasses. She acknowledged that this was not her area. Even so, she looks at a lot of retinas and said mine were healthy.

She did say that retinal detachment does not just happen spontaneously. It usually occurs gradually, beginning at a location where the retina is damaged. That damage is visible during an exam. She recommended that I get annual retina exams and see an ophthalmologist immediately after seeing symptoms (flashes of light when you move your eyes, increased number of floaters, or worse, a persistent shadow or curtain of darkness over part of visual field). See this link for more detail:

http://www.webmd.com/eye-health/tc/retinal-detachment-symptoms

This is good advice for all of us shooters over 50, whether or not we shoot .50 cal. Our vision is just too important to precision shooting.

[Richie Caketown]

just to let you guys know


the anti-tank mausers from WWII had a concern of similiar scale ... i think it was the 13.2mm

[bohoki]

i can only stand about 10 shots from my ferret then i feel a slight migrane

but i dont think the shoulder bump transfers through my shoulder to my head even with a cheekweld my flabby jowls have plenty of give

if you got whanged with the scope in the eye that could be a problem i bought one of these when i whanged my glasses good shooting carelessly

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=DK&prodID=DKSE43MM&prodTitle=Devorak%20Ang%20Soft%20Eyes%2043-47mm%20%281.70-1.85

[Hans Gruber]

I know that after shooting Impactco's ferret just a few times and smelling blood... I'm convinced that muzzle blast overpressure can certainly have a detrimental effect on the soft tissues in the human head. That doesn't mean that it'll effect everyone the same way if at all, but it can certainly reach back and throttle you pretty good. I'm not a particularly fragile guy either so it surprised me.

I'd say that you should take steps to monitor yourself and have a plan to limit exposure from the start.

[HCz]

I have a friend who has been a competitive high power shooter and hunter for most of his adult life. He is ~60 years old and recently experienced retinal detachment. So did his wife, who has also done a lot of competitive shooting and hunting. He trains squad designated marksmen for the Army and told me that the Army is limiting the number of .50 cal rounds a soldier fires from a rifle in a day during training. He is very concerned that a history of high power shooting has had something to do with his and his wife's vision issues.

A former LAPD instructor has similar problem. His is probably from shotgun shooting. As for .50bmg round, I don't think casual/occasional shooting is not going to hurt, but if you do it long enough it might hurt.

[bruce_ventura]

I talked to my shooting friend again today. He says he and his wife had vitreous humor detachment, which is different but also quite scary. Symptoms are increased number of floaters and flashes of light in the peripheral vision. These symptoms are similar to those for retinal detachment and dictate an immediate visit to the ophthalmologist. Vitreous detachment can lead to retinal detachment. In his case it took about 6 months for the gel-like humor to dissolve. Until then he says the visual effect was like having ants walk across his retinal. He repeated that he is convinced his >40 years of high power shooting was a factor.

He has given up service rifle competition, partly because of the detachment issue and partly because his eyesight has otherwise degraded to the point that he can't focus on the front sight anymore.

I plan to continue shooting, but I'll be more cautious:
1. limit unnecessary exposure to recoil and muzzle blast
2. watch for symptoms and see a doctor immediately if they occur
3. get annual retina exams

BTW, I double up on hearing protection too whenever I shoot .50 cal. But that's probably fodder for another thread.