gun locks and PPTs

[PolishMike]

OK, I can buy a brand new Glock, which comes with a factory handgun lock, and that is good enough for the law, but if I buy that same Glock, used, from a private party, with that same lock included, it isn't acceptable?

Yep, that's Federal law...

[CSACANNONEER]

Federal law just says that a lock must leave the store with a handgun. The 30 day thing is California law. Many FFLs don't want to deal with the differences between the two and want to make extra profit so, they insist that you buy a $5 lock from them for $25! If your FFL does this, find a new FFL who is honest!

[ke6guj]

Yep, that's Federal law...

It should satisfy state law as well.

12088.1(a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

That hypothetical Glock PPT would be accompanied by a an FSD, so 12088.1 should be covered.

[Librarian]

Yep, that's Federal law...

Well, no, it isn't.

What 18 USC 922 (z) says is that a buyer must be " provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in
section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun. "

Despite BATF intimations to the contrary, 'provided with' is not the same as 'purchased at the same time as the handgun'; we know this because 18 USC 921 (a)(34) allows gun safes to qualify for 'secure gun storage' and no one in his right mind would require the purchase of a gun safe every time one bought a handgun.

See the wiki.

Then again 'in his right mind' and 'BATF' do seem sometimes to be non-intersecting sets.

[ke6guj]

Federal law just says that a lock must leave the store with a handgun. The 30 day thing is California law. Many FFLs don't want to deal with the differences between the two and want to make extra profit so, they insist that you buy a $5 lock from them for $25! If your FFL does this, find a new FFL who is honest!

the 30-day thing applies if the purchaser/transferee supplies the lock. If the seller provides the lock, there is no "30-day" rule.

[Napalm Bulldog]

Just go to Walmart buy a lock then show the reciept when getting gun, After done take it back for a refund. EASY. No one says you have to apply the lock.

[theneko]

I appreciate the suggestions, and it may be the simplest thing to buy a cheap lock and then return it.

BUT-- can anyone tell me why what I'm doing is not "correct" ? Or is CSACANNONEER
right that I need to find a better FFL? The lock and the "recieipt" from the PD seem to meet the letter and spirit of the law. That is free, and does not involve a separate trip back to the store to return it. Yes I end up with a drawer full of locks but periodically I take them back to the PD to replenish their stock.

(This is turning out to be an interesting thread! Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies. Sounds like there is some confusion in general around this topic...)

[Mr. Beretta]

I gave up trying to figure this out years ago. I got tired of arguing with the FFL. I just buy the lock and throw it in the drawer when I get home with all the others.

[SgtDinosaur]

I gave up trying to figure this out years ago. I got tired of arguing with the FFL. I just buy the lock and throw it in the drawer when I get home with all the others.

Yes, I seem to be starting a collection too. It is mildly irritating. For a while the safe affidavit was working just fine.

[CSACANNONEER]

I appreciate the suggestions, and it may be the simplest thing to buy a cheap lock and then return it.

BUT-- can anyone tell me why what I'm doing is not "correct" ? Or is CSACANNONEER
right that I need to find a better FFL? The lock and the "recieipt" from the PD seem to meet the letter and spirit of the law. That is free, and does not involve a separate trip back to the store to return it. Yes I end up with a drawer full of locks but periodically I take them back to the PD to replenish their stock.

(This is turning out to be an interesting thread! Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies. Sounds like there is some confusion in general around this topic...)

I don't think that our opinion about locks differ. You are complying with the law but, your FFL interprets the law differently (possibly to make a profit on a lock). My FFL of choice provides me with a free lock every time I leave his shop with a handgun. I always return the favor and give him my unused, Ca approved, firearm locks to sell or give away to the needy. Again, Ca law specifies that you either need to purchase a lock within 30 days ( if a lock comes with the gun, you are purchasing it with the gun) or have a safe. Federal law requires a lock to be present when removing the handgun from the shop. So, in all reality, you could still use a safe affidavit and a lock that was given to you to meet both state and Federal law. Unfortunately, some FFLs don't want to think for themselves and only do what some DOJ monkey verbally tells them is the only proper way. They would rather cost their customers time and money than do something that some flunky DOJ rep arbitrarily decides is the law.

If you really like your FFL, your wife, your job, etc., sometimes you just need to put up with the little things which you don't like. If you can't stand a particular quirk, it's time to move on.

[Big Jake]

You can also sign the affidavit certifying you have a gun safe if this, in fact, the case!

[Army]

My dealer gives me a refund reciept for the return of a lock that I bought but never saw

[kmca]

You can also sign the affidavit certifying you have a gun safe if this, in fact, the case!

As stated above, that affidavit only satisfies the California law, not the federal.

[ITZJT]

I've had them tell me if its the original lock with the gun I was doing a PPT on it was fine and also had them tell me buy the lock here now and return it on your way out the door.

[Baconator]

I have never had to buy a lock. I bought a XD 45 through PPT and it didn't have a lock, and the FFL didn't make me buy a lock. I sold a Beretta to a guy on here without a lock, again he didn't have to buy a lock. I don't understand this whole deal.