Girlfriend Asks about Self Defense

[GrinderCB]

I read an article in a gun magazine some years ago about how to really handle a home defense situation. Assuming that you have time to do so, you get your gun, find a hidden place like behind the bed or in the closet, and call 911, telling them that there's an intruder and you need help "right now." The 911 operator will stay on the phone until the cops get there, helping you stay calm. Basically, you don't go out into the house to hunt an intruder. There are all sorts of other variables, like what if you have kids asleep in another room, etc, but the basics are that you hide and wait for the cops unless the intruder actually comes at you. Then we're back to the 21-foot rule.

[AaronHorrocks]

If that works for you two great.

I would suggest, and IMO a shotgun is the better choice for home defense. One does NOT need to have great aim, high degree of skill, and is extremely effective at close range (under 20 yards).

I am not buying yet another caliber to mess around with.

off the top of my head, I already have

.32 Auto
9mm
7.62x25
7.62x39
7.62x54
5.45x39
.556
.30-06
.303
.45ACP
8mm
.50 BMG

So I don't want to put another one into the mix!

[tango5]

Hi New Poster here...

Girlfriend and I were talking about what to do if we had a bag guy come into our house.

Scenario is this; she is alone, has a couple of nice knives that could help the situation (Kobun Tanto, SOG Flash II, etc) but she also has available a G17 with Remington Golden Saber HPJ loaded to go bang.

Let's say the baddy just wants a few dollars and is beginning to move closer to GF. She gets nervous and backs into our room (not a big place we live in) and goes for the G17 (knows how to use it) and by this time the baddy is the bedroom door. I chime in here and say just point the gun at the ground in front of baddy (with finger out of bang area for now) and tell him you have a gun and would like him to leave.

BG decides to come closer and not leave, pulls a knife, crowbar some other menacing item. I chime in here and tell my GF it is time to do the unthinkable and take careful aim and pull trigger. This is where she says NO WAY, I do not want to go to jail.

She would be justified self defense here ya? Doesn't kill baddy just hurts him so she can run and call LE.

Lot's of time 'splaining herself at the police office but she wouldn't be in trouble would she?

Thanks!
Evo

If she doesnt plan on using the gun to protect her life, then she shouldnt have it or drawn it. Whats the point of having a gun with hollow points if your not going to use it on a bad guy who has dismissed your requests to leave your home? Following her into the house is a no no on his part, then following her to the bedroom after she told him to leave is grounds for lethal force. Was she in fear of her life being taken, or raped? Grounds for self protection. She wouldnt be in trouble, shoot to kill, dead guys cant sue you later.

[locosway]

I never understood why a knife was an option but a gun wasn't.

I can take a knife away from a woman in seconds. It's not about being trained, it's about power. A gun requires neither extensive training or power. The gun is the equalizer in all combat situations.

Remember, never bring a knife to a gun fight... and... If sides are even, someone didn't plan enough.

[CSACANNONEER]

Just get training, know the laws, practice, practice, practice and be 100% metally prepared to take another human's life to protect your own. If you are not mentally ready, you might hesitate for the split second that will cost you your life. Oh, did I mention practicing? Muscle memory and reaction time will probably be the deciding factor in determining which person will win a gun fight.

[Stormfeather]

I would add that when armed, she needs to yell real loud (hopefully so others can hear and call police, as well as be witnesses if all else fails) "I have a gun, stay back or I WILL shoot". If he comes closer than 5 feet - practice so she can visualize where 5 feet is - then she needs to make decisive action.

Usually criminals will leave at the sight or sound of a gun, and most likely deadly force will not be necessary.

I'm thinking 5 feet is way too close for me, I think 10 feet would be the min.

Think 21 feet. The average person can cover that in about 3 seconds from a standstill start. Once they are within 5-10 feet, you are already knee deep in the killzone.

[Stormfeather]

Ever hear of the 21 foot rule? It takes a bad guy armed with a knife or other weapon about 2 seconds (starting from a full stop) to cover 21 feet, which is about the same amount of time it takes to draw from an openly-carried holster. Police are trained that within that 21 foot radius a bad guy with a knife is just as lethal as one with a gun.

If someone is in your home, especially if they're armed, you'd be wise to treat them as an existential threat and act accordingly. California law (quoted below) says that there is a legal presumption that if you use deadly force in your home you were justified in doing so. Doesn't mean you'll be left entirely alone by the judicial system, but the deck is stacked HEAVILY in your favor unless you say something really stupid. And none of this "shoot to wound" BS either, if you have to shoot you shoot at center of mass. The goal isn't to kill, but center of mass is just where you're most likely to score a hit that will stop the threat (especially with a couple quarts of adrenaline pumping through your system rendering your motor skills somewhat lacking).

This is what I get for not reading the thread all the way thru! Good Info DocRock!

[Rob454]

This.

This what?

[BillCA]

First, if you keep your doors unlocked around here you're asking for it. Second, and you bring up a completely valid point, it was my understanding that if anyone enters your home that you feel is there to harm you you can shoot. What's the difference if the person enters by force or just walks in? That's like saying if he just slides in through an open window he's legally immune from your bullets.

You might rethink the highlighted statement. That's sort of like telling a woman "if you dress like that, you're asking for it".

As to the person just walking in, read the statutes again.

You always have the right of self-defense when resisting someone commiting a felony on your person or who is trying to commit some great bodily injury (including murder) on you.

If someone sneaks into your house to commit a felony or enters in "a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner" for the purpose of offering violence then homicide is justifiable.

However, the guy who walks in through your unlocked door, sits in your lazy-boy, drinks your beer and flips through the TV channels while ignoring your commands to leave has committed no felony and there is (as yet) no evidence of his intent to cause violence or injury to anyone.might do without an indication he plans to do that action.

However, if the person makes threats or displays any weapon in a threatening manner then the events have changed and the threat of violence exists. But that level of violence must rise to a felony or threat of great bodily harm.

It will come down to what a reasonable man would believe at the time of the incident, knowing what you did. This means if the person is unknown to you, you(r lawyer) may not tell the jury about his long record of rape or violence in your defense.

I would say that if a door is kicked in and the intruder fails to stop approaching when commanded at gunpoint, that would "excite the fears of a reasonable personTrespassing is a misdemeanorThis would be, perhaps, petty theftNo felony, no threat of violence or a felony, no shoot.